I was wrong. I thought the message could inspire  even if the messenger wasn't perfect.

Both the message and the messenger have been roundly rejected by the British people.

Quite depressing for me. Lesson learned. Actually quite scary what may unfold in the near future.

Apologies to Papin, AP and a few others.

(12-13-2019, 12:49 AM)Grumblebum Wrote: I was wrong. I thought the message could inspire  even if the messenger wasn't perfect.

Both the message and the messenger have been roundly rejected by the British people.

Quite depressing for me. Lesson learned.

Apologies to Papin, AP and a few others.

I don't know if the message has been rejected.

The word is “Corbyn was toxic” but I don't think it's necessarily a rejection of the message overall.

Off to bed Can't deal with this any more. That's us for 5 years. 14 years of fucking Tory government. At least.

(12-13-2019, 12:51 AM)Walter Sobchak Wrote: I don't know if the message has been rejected.

The word is “Corbyn was toxic” but I don't think it's necessarily a rejection of the message overall.

On this point:

https://twitter.com/misselliemae/status/...95584?s=21

(11-23-2019, 11:55 AM)Little Bit Of The Begbie Wrote: It's not a choice between a socialist who can't communicate and a centrist who can - definition of a false dichotomy.

This idea that people want Blair because they are critical of aspects of Corbyn's leadership, or that they are critical because they are scared of change, is arrant nonsense. Labour's policies in this election are the most progressive, most likely series of measures to achieve genuine change for people's lives in any of our lifetimes (VS and Dex aside). Whether you like it or not, though, communication matters and perception matters. As much as he comes alive in campaigns like this and is capable of debating effectively (watch some clips of his Oxford Union debates on YouTube - he's decent), he doesn't communicate with enough clarity. His actual message is great, but the way he presents it to voters isn't coherent enough - that was evident in the difference between him and Sturgeon last night. He had the better things to say, his content was much more interesting, but she was the one who articulated her points better. It's all well and good blaming people for being too centrist or too narrow minded to get it, but in the end, people outside of our echo chamber need to get it or we (the left) lose. Again. You need to understand that many of the frustrations people have with Corbyn, me included, are because we see a chance for a genuinely socialist government for the first time in our lives, given the shambolic, incompetent government in power, and he's just not strong enough to make his message stick. You can change fuck all from opposition, regardless of how good your manifesto is. And sure, the deck is stacked against him by the media but the realpolitik is that socialist leaders will have to overcome that - it doesn't excuse his mistakes, it exacerbates them. He's going to lose this election, most probably, and it'll be another hard luck story, another shaken fist at the biased media, and another set of great policies that never happened. Cool.

I've been right far more often than I've been wrong in recent years.

Looks like I ended up being right again

https://twitter.com/scottygb/status/1205...27968?s=21

Good fucking god :

(12-13-2019, 01:07 AM)Makween Wrote: Off to bed Can't deal with this any more. That's us for 5 years. 14 years of fucking Tory government. At least.

14 years and they'll still be blaming Gordon Brown for every economic problem

Turkeys vote for Christmas. Always have, always will.

(12-13-2019, 01:10 AM)Walter Sobchak Wrote: On this point:

https://twitter.com/misselliemae/status/...95584?s=21

I think that analysis is utterly misguided. Whoever comes after Corbyn needs to get realistic about what it takes to rebuild. What the Labour Party currently is just doesn't reflect the country, as depressing as that is for some. Without power, the policies mean fuck all.

(12-13-2019, 01:15 AM)Little Bit Of The Begbie Wrote: I've been right far more often than I've been wrong in recent years.

Looks like I ended up being right again

Thing is, I actually thought Corbyn ran a good campaign and came across well throughout. I live on a different planet to others and probably have to accept that my subjectivity is at play here.

First Scottish result in:

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status...93512?s=20

McEwen

Her fucking voice man

(12-13-2019, 01:34 AM)Little Bit Of The Begbie Wrote: McEwen

Her fucking voice man

I'm that deflated, I've not even bothered complaining about the fucking slaver.

Absolutely fucking hate her. Horrible, horrible woman.

Kate Forbes on C4

The boy Murray wearing a dashing marone tie

(12-13-2019, 01:39 AM)Johnny Wrote: Kate Forbes on C4

Kate Forbes the islander MSP is on Channel 4's election coverage? What

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status...88161?s=20

Looked like the SNP candidate was wearing an Arbroath club tie.

Aye. Apparantly all the Westminster SNP folk are at their counts so shes on

Shes v v dece

What a strange choice, not even high profile in Holyrood

Plus I saw her first you foot-loving deviant

I can see her being groomed :begbie: for bigger things. Met her a couple of times as the Digital Economy minister - she's quite impressive.

Shes a minister is she she no? Likely on cause shes dece. Fucking Rilan, Tom Watson, Katherine Ryan and Jummy Carr anaw so it's not exactly the cream of the crop

Saw her first

Bet her feet are toatsie