'Wings Over TalkHearts' Politics Thread

[Big Physical Acey]

What is the motion?

Art 50 is for Scotch MPs to decide.

Their little legal challenge was a complete sham and barely statable. Wolfe will have been cringing. Genuinely had zero chance of success and Sturgeon will have been told that.

Depends on how you define "success" in this context.

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Dugshitedale - 

[Mr A]

Depends on how you define "success" in this context.

Well, yes. It gives them ammunition to stoke grievance among the dafties.

So successful in that respect.

They are shameless.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Phatrick Harvey calling for another indyref. They should just have one in a couple of weeks time so there's as little harm to the economy as possible.

[Patrick Bateman]

Strange to see all these #ProudScots on Twitter gleeful about Holyrood being ruled impotent by the UKSC. It's interesting that british nationalists used to insist it was pro-independence minded folk who were brainwashed and gullible. Since 2014, the No vote has seen Scotland's budget cut, its MPs lose power, its democratic will being completely ignored and now its devolved parliament reduced to a legal talking shop, despite various pretendy Westminster acts to enshrine the Sewel convention. Yet the people that advocate for this being a price worth paying to remain a subservient member of the Union get very uppity at the slightest suggestion that they don't have Scotland's best interests at heart. Maybe the penny will drop, but I doubt it somehow.

[Bill Cosby]

Strange to see all these #ProudScots on Twitter gleeful about Holyrood being ruled impotent by the UKSC. It's interesting that british nationalists used to insist it was pro-independence minded folk who were brainwashed and gullible. Since 2014, the No vote has seen Scotland's budget cut, its MPs lose power, its democratic will being completely ignored and now its devolved parliament reduced to a legal talking shop, despite various pretendy Westminster acts to enshrine the Sewel convention. Yet the people that advocate for this being a price worth paying to remain a subservient member of the Union get very uppity at the slightest suggestion that they don't have Scotland's best interests at heart. Maybe the penny will drop, but I doubt it somehow.

Scots exercised their democratic rights by voting to remain a part of the Union and all the nuances that entailed.

Rather than putting all their efforts into breaking apart from a Union that has been largely successful for all involved, why not improve the union. 

I would certainly vote for a federal type system.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Strange to see all these #ProudScots on Twitter gleeful about Holyrood being ruled impotent by the UKSC. It's interesting that british nationalists used to insist it was pro-independence minded folk who were brainwashed and gullible. Since 2014, the No vote has seen Scotland's budget cut, its MPs lose power, its democratic will being completely ignored and now its devolved parliament reduced to a legal talking shop, despite various pretendy Westminster acts to enshrine the Sewel convention. Yet the people that advocate for this being a price worth paying to remain a subservient member of the Union get very uppity at the slightest suggestion that they don't have Scotland's best interests at heart. Maybe the penny will drop, but I doubt it somehow.

1) 99% of folk who opine about politics on twitter are utter spastics
2) the Budget has increased every year for the last 4 years, it's the SNP making all the cuts.

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http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/01/men...it-debate/

[Patrick Bateman]

Scots exercised their democratic rights by voting to remain a part of the Union and all the nuances that entailed.

What nuances were those? The No vote was predicated on various conditions, including the promise of "near federalism" in The Vow and continued EU membership. Both of those have been betrayed by subsequent Westminster decisions. Now the UKSC has ruled that the UK is not a "union of equal nations" but, as everyone already knew, one that was disproportionately powerful. I get that some people on here get gratification from ripping into the SNP and saying how much they hate Scotland, but in all seriousness, what sort of people are happy to see just shy of 2/3rds of voters ignored and Holyrood's stature diminished, after legislation was drafted to enshrine it.


As for "SNP cuts". The treasury decides Scotland's budget; therefore the SNP has no capacity, whatsoever, to make "cuts" merely rebalance resources. Or are you suggesting the SNP will copy was Labour did under McConnell and actually send money back to the treasury, perhaps whilst taking out vast, long term loans to fund projects at the same time instead?

[Mr A]

1) 99% of folk who opine about politics on twitter are utter spastics
2) the Budget has increased every year for the last 4 years, it's the SNP making all the cuts.

I thought we were getting £800m more this year, from Westminster.

Shocked that Bateman would be peddling Fake News tbh.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Sad!

Wonder if he describes Tory austerity as 'rebalancing resources' 

May as well point out Labour had to send underspend back at that time. Rules were changed in 2011 that allowed devolved govs to carry over unspent money up to a set percentage. Imagine the SNP still send money back every year if they are keeping a percentage. 

looks like Bateman gets his info from fake news sites like wings and bella caledonia.

[Patrick Bateman]

Sad!

Wonder if he describes Tory austerity as 'rebalancing resources' 

May as well point out Labour had to send underspend back at that time. Rules were changed in 2011 that allowed devolved govs to carry over unspent money up to a set percentage. Imagine the SNP still send money back every year if they are keeping a percentage. 

looks like Bateman gets his info from fake news sites like wings and bella caledonia.

That'll be fake news from the FT? https://www.ft.com/content/464f3396-79ad...7294649b28

The Tories determine Scotland's budget, not the SNP.

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That'll be fake news from the FT? https://www.ft.com/content/464f3396-79ad...7294649b28

The Tories determine Scotland's budget, not the SNP.

SNP's latest budget shows in increase year on year. Back above pre recession levels this year.

[Del-icious]

FUCKIN TORY BASTARDS MAN.

They've changed, or are changing the way speeding fines are dished out. It's good in principle, you could in theory be charged 150% of your weekly wage for the maximum fine which means even folk making more money can't just speed and pay the fine because it's a pittance.

But they've capped the maximum fine at a grand which means people who are raking in big salaries will be charged less proportionality.

Cunts.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Anyone who gets caught speeding is a moron

[Bill Cosby]

It's clearly a step in the right direction, certainly more than Labour ever did on the matter. I'm unsure of the seethe really.

[Mr A]

FUCKIN TORY BASTARDS MAN.

They've changed, or are changing the way speeding fines are dished out.  It's good in principle, you could in theory be charged 150% of your weekly wage for the maximum fine which means even folk making more money can't just speed and pay the fine because it's a pittance.

But they've capped the maximum fine at a grand which means people who are raking in big salaries will be charged less proportionality.  

Cunts.

Does this apply in Scotland?

[Big Physical Acey]

Calm down Morph - nobody gets fined >£1000 for speeding anyway.

(cue frantic googling from the rest of the TalkHearts Bar Association)

[shaun.lawson]

One of the major arguments against mass immigration is that it makes assimilation less likely and creates a culture divide - given the shared language and cultural similarities between Britain and the West Indies, I think it's a decent bet that immigration sceptics would favour immigration from the West Indies over places in Eastern Europe with different languages and heritages.

Yes. I find the climate and political discourse (if we can even call it that; usually, it's just hysteria) around immigration appalling. It results in all sorts of human misery: families broken up, children left to rot, students fucked over, and the government making up bullshit on whether another country is safe or not. However...

... Has multi-culturalism worked? My answer would emphatically be: no, it has not. It has not because failure to expect new arrivals to assimilate into one main culture actively promotes division and segregation. Division and segregation lead to fear, mistrust and tension - and when it's in poorer, neglected areas of the UK, to scapegoating too.

When embarking on this experiment, the job of British politicians was to take the people with them. It could only have done so through massive investment across the country in housing, transport, health and schools. It failed; for the most part, it didn't even try. That isn't merely unacceptable; as humanity's natural state is tribal, it's plain lunatic. And any policy which ignores human nature will fail.

Almost every democracy around the world which has immigration expects immigrants to assimilate: embrace its values, learn and speak its language, mix among its people. In Britain, this has only happened in major cities, where all the wealth is concentrated. It is not the fault of those living outside these diverse conurbations that government after government has continually ignored them - so in both the US and UK, what happened was a cultural backlash, from people who fear their way of life is being taken away from them.

And you can say that some of those people are a bit dim, or lack cultural capital, or are poorly educated. But that's the fault of the societies which failed to educate them properly and failed miserably to give them opportunities beyond that, while simultaneously inviting in wave after wave after wave of low-skilled, low-wage labour.

The left should've been against mass immigration from the outset; the right should've been in favour. That it's been the opposite is plainly for cultural reasons - but the only way back for the left will be for it to understand that, and (mind those flying pigs) formulate policies and attitudes which persuade the electorate that it's on their side. Anything else is to deny what people see with their own eyes every day.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

TalkHearts Bar Association

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