Contagion 2020

[Big Physical Acey]

After this shitshow of a year I find it hard to have a go at anyone for going away to the countryside for a break for a few days.

[Shuto Makino]

I think if you're telling people they have to travel around the country to go to work, you shouldn't be guilt tripping them for going away for a few days domestically on their time off.

I agree, but - and this is the same point I was making about the gyms and pubs a couple of months back - the issue there is (at least potentially) that people shouldn't be being made to travel to work (with certain obvious exceptions). One thing being wrongly opened isn't a justification for opening other things, because contagious viruses don't care about what's fair.

[Del-icious]

I don't even know what the rules are now, are you meant to stay in your local area?

If you are in one of the health boards that have higher restrictions you are encouraged not to travel to another area if you don't need to.

There's nothing stopping you though.

[Sarkozabal]

We know Mak, and you have to balance some things being open versus others not, that's clear. However, I would say that the standard starting ground (particularly from the #FBPE #FuckBoris Twitter scene) seems to be to shame people for things like going on holiday, visiting family or going to pubs/restaurants/gyms, but having no issue with less enjoyable things operating as normal.

It's like a competition to who can deprive themselves of the most things to be the best Covid citizen.

[Del-icious]

I don't really get on board with this idea that folk from the city are acting like super spreaders in these wee towns and villages either and all the locals are raging at them turning up. Maybe this was the case months ago but I don't see it now.

The reason these holidays are popular just now is because you tend to be quite isolated when you go. Loads of these communities rely on tourism as well so there will be just as many people happy that locals are filling in the gaps left by tourists. People have been going on these trips for a wee bit now and there doesn't seem to be any noise that smaller places are being decked with cases by folk from the city coming in so seems to be fine.

If they're going to tell folk it's safe enough to go into offices full of other people and get back to their work then I'm not sure how it's unsafe for a family to go book a cabin up north or whatever. We're not going to lockdown again so think we just need to accept there's going to be a degree of risk in near enough everything we do and that'll include things you want to do for fun as well as things you need to do like going to work.

[Shuto Makino]

We know Mak, and you have to balance some things being open versus others not, that's clear. However, I would say that the standard starting ground (particularly from the #FBPE #FuckBoris Twitter scene) seems to be to shame people for things like going on holiday, visiting family or going to pubs/restaurants/gyms, but having no issue with less enjoyable things operating as normal.

It's like a competition to who can deprive themselves of the most things to be the best Covid citizen.

Mostly agree with this. I'm pretty ambivalent about holidays tbh - wouldn't shame anyone for going on a short break, and taking what precautions they can. But there is an unfortunate reality that the people who need to physically go to work (and there's definitely room for debate over who should/shouldn't be expected to do so) are the people who, from the point of view of transmission, should be the most isolated outside of it, given that they're most exposed and most likely to spread it. The argument against that is that it's not fair for people to be expected to work and not socialise, and it's true - it's not fair. But viruses don't have a sense of morality.

There are loads of things to balance with this stuff - the economic value of closing businesses vs the public health impact of keeping them open, and the mental health impacts of lockdown vs the physical health impacts of opening up. I honestly don't know where I stand on it any more - part of me wants to say that we can't just stay in lockdown forever and need to find ways of living with this, but having lost a loved one to Covid I also know that that stuff's easy to say when it's abstract and harder when you have to deal with the consequences. As it is I'm finding myself sort of half following the measures and sympathising to an extent both with people who are and aren't following them. Feel like inconsistent communications are at the root of most of the issues.

[Fraggle]

Currently up in Inverurie, away to Inverness, Pitlochry and St Andrews next week. Was meant to be in Slovenia so will have to make do with this. Zero laws being broken and abiding by all SD regulations so fuck the haters 

[Vieri]

The idea that locals in places like Pitlochry are raging that people from the cities are visiting is laughable. Places like that survive on tourism.

[Shuto Makino]

Maybe locals in places like Pitlochry are reacting in a variety of ways, like locals everywhere else.

[Del-icious]

The idea that locals in places like Pitlochry are raging that people from the cities are visiting is laughable. Places like that survive on tourism.

I agree with your point but that reminds me of the chippy in Pitlochry that refuses to open late to get the enchanted forest customers because they are stubborn bastards who hate it

[Vieri]

Maybe locals in places like Pitlochry are reacting in a variety of ways, like locals everywhere else.

Maybe they are. I suppose the ones in secure jobs not in the hospitality sector or retired might not be keen. For the majority of people who rely on the hospitality sector for their income either directly or indirectly they probably don't want a ghost town. It just seems to me most of the people so keen for more restrictions tend to be the ones unlikely to lose their livelihood as a result

[Socko]

Maybe I'm over simplifying it but it didn't seem like there was any major rise in cases when pubs/restaurants/cinemas/shops opened back up and household visits were allowed. It only seemed to kick off when schools and unis went back, which they surely must have expected. I'm definitely not saying unis and schools should close but is closing the other things really expected to have much of an impact on reducing cases? Just not at all sure what the end game is. Seems now like there's a lot being sacrificed for not much gain.

[2MatoFish]

Maybe I'm over simplifying it but it didn't seem like there was any major rise in cases when pubs/restaurants/cinemas/shops opened back up and household visits were allowed. It only seemed to kick off when schools and unis went back, which they surely must have expected. I'm definitely not saying unis and schools should close but is closing the other things really expected to have much of an impact on reducing cases? Just not at all sure what the end game is. Seems now like there's a lot being sacrificed for not much gain.

Phases two and three came when there were a few hundred people in the whole of Scotland with covid. We could've instituted a mandatory policy of everyone has to kiss 100 strangers every day and the infection rate would've remained low for a few months.

Schools and unis played a part, and that exact extent will come out in the wash, but you're over simplifying it.

[Shuto Makino]

Maybe they are. I suppose the ones in secure jobs not in the hospitality sector or retired might not be keen. For the majority of people who rely on the hospitality sector for their income either directly or indirectly they probably don't want a ghost town. It just seems to me most of the people so keen for more restrictions tend to be the ones unlikely to lose their livelihood as a result

My experience from having lived and worked in retail in St Andrews, a town largely reliant on tourism and students, is that people who live and work in these towns don't necessarily always think in their economic interests. People often resent the incomers.

You're probably right that it's in their interests, economically at least, for people to be visiting their town, but your description of the idea that some of them might not be happy about it as 'laughable' on that basis is a bit ignorant tbh.

[Mikey]

Buzzing if you own a shop, pub or B&B and moaning like fuck about them if you're anybody else, would be by my guess

[Sterling Archer]

Buzzing if you own a shop, pub or B&B and moaning like fuck about them if you're anybody else, would be by my guess  

So Edinburgh then

[pondlife]

Buzzing if you own a shop, pub or B&B and moaning like fuck about them if you're anybody else, would be by my guess  

Nailed it, ... like what, every other village, town, city in.the.world., unless you're a gurning, gaikit windae-licker.

[Cheeky Gnando’s]

gurning, gaikit windae-licker

Alan Partridge's new username please, mods.

[Mikey]

Alan Partridge's new username please, mods.

Acey's changed to Guffy Pudding while you're at it

[Vieri]

My experience from having lived and worked in retail in St Andrews, a town largely reliant on tourism and students, is that people who live and work in these towns don't necessarily always think in their economic interests. People often resent the incomers.

You're probably right that it's in their interests, economically at least, for people to be visiting their town, but your description of the idea that some of them might not be happy about it as 'laughable' on that basis is a bit ignorant tbh.

Just my personal experience of knowing quite a few people who work in Highland Perthshire towns is that they want as many shifts as possible and that it's been a struggle this year. Your experience of working a year in St Andrews retail is no doubt far more relevant, agreed.