Talk Hearts Daily News Thread

[Mr A]

I can't believe that children under the ago of 16 were allowed to take the hormone blockers in the first place.

[Walter Sobchak]

But then if someone has absolutely shown they believe themselves to be another gender, from a young age, isn't that appropriate? I definitely have concerns about the later onset issues, where say a kid at 14 or 15 suddenly realises this, and think that so many phases kids go through at age 14 or 15, like with Morph, he was a mad goth till age 19 I heard, that maybe starting treatment on back of a sudden issue at say age 15, is on much thinner ground.

Btw not trying to write it off as a phase, just saying that medication may be right for some under 16s but not for many others.

[Del-icious]

It's a difficult one as I don't believe children under the age of 16 are capable of making those huge decisions.  Maybe this is offensive and I don't mean it to be but would it not be similar to consenting to having sex?  How are we able to say no child is allowed to make 1 big decision with their body in having sex but they are able to consent to another body decision in gender stuff?

At the same time if someone knows that they are in the wrong body then why should their childhood be ruined and only able to really begin living their life when they are an adult and able to be the gender they feel?

I don't really know the answer for it, I feel quite strongly that a child can't be expected to make huge life changing decisions at those ages (not specifically to trans just in general) but that doesn't really help the child going through that situation.

[Mr A]

I dont see how any child can know for certain that they are in the wrong body - even if they've held that belief for years. I dont think children are emotionally developed enough to know for sure tbh.

There's also concerns that children could be pressured into the change - and pressured into thinking they need the change by a multitude of sources (family, friends, internet weirdos etc).

Does the hormone treatment not cause irreversible change?

[2MatoFish]

I dont see how any child can know for certain that they are in the wrong body - even if they've held that belief for years. I dont think children are emotionally developed enough to know for sure tbh.

There are countless examples of people who said they were aware from a very early age they were in the wrong body. That's not to say everyone who felt that way continued to feel that way.

[Del-icious]

I think the biggest issue is you have a whole bunch of people like us who have nae experience at all dealing with a child with these issues (at least I don't think anyone on here does) so we probably have quite unrealistic ideas of how this stuff plays out in reality.

I think most parents would be able to judge if their kids were just 'going through a phase' or having serious gender issues. If they didn't, the doctors would be able to. It's not a case of just deciding one day you're doing it, it's a very long process to actually get some sort of treatment whether that's hormone blockers, full on gender reassignment etc.

We'd be better letting people actually affected by this stuff steer the policy on it whether we like what the outcome is or not because ultimately it's only really people in their situation that this is going to have any baring on. Think unfortunately that representation just isn't really there at gvt level.

Looks as if SNP has just appointed a woman who publicly has supported JK Rowling and anti trans groups as equalities chief so if a party like SNP who are seen by many as progressive are falling well behind what chances do other people have with more conservative gvts?

[Lil Sebastian]

Just read that Pat Patterson has died at the age of 79. Haven't watched wrestling for about 20 years but he was a big part of the Mr Mahon character development in the late 90's. And invented the Roual Rumble. 

RIP.

[Kashinda]

And invented the Roual Rumble.

Really disrespectful way to talk about the shooting of PC Rathband.

[Kashinda]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-ca...e-55144148

Quite interesting regarding the trans debate.

See Ellen Page has just transitioned to become Elliot Page, that must be the highest profile female to male transition so far?

What's folks opinions on the whole “I identify as a they/them debate?”

[Big Physical Acey]

People can identify however they want, and I'll do my very best to respect their choice. Unfortunately, you have two completely irreconcilable positions in respect of (for example) “safe spaces for women”, and I don't know what the endgame is for that.

[Snake Plissken]

What's folks opinions on the whole “I identify as a they/them debate?”

It's the most tedious online discourse there is.

[Steven Toast]

It's the most tedious online discourse there is.

It's a debate I genuinely struggle to give a fuck about.

I had to unfollow that Graham Linehan. He was ruining Twitter for me. The cunt was obsessed.

I think he ended up getting punted off Twitter and ruining his marriage because of it all.

[Drederick Shanktum]

I'm with acey on this.

It's a fucking minefield as well. There's no room for nuance from what I have seen online either. Better staying well out of it.

There seems to be a Twitter storm brewing that he/they is going to continue to play a female character I see also.

[2MatoFish]

I mean, it's acting he wasn't actually pregnant during the filming of Juno.

[Del-icious]

I mean, it's acting he wasn't actually pregnant during the filming of Juno.

Will it not be from the folk who think he's taking a role away from a woman rather than being disgusted at the thought of a man playing a woman character?

If for some people it's the latter they are in for a shock when they read about the history of performance

[2MatoFish]

Will it not be from the folk who think he's taking a role away from a woman rather than being disgusted at the thought of a man playing a woman character?

Dunno, sounds a strong possibilit now you mention it. I was envisaging people going 'well, you've made your bed. No more lady stuff for you'.

But I don't know because, like others, I shut down intellectually when I see the topic. Part of it is the terminology, it's heavy and technical, but also extremely personal in many cases. It's inaccessible but you sometimes need to be a mind reader too (cis world problems amirite). I just feel zero curiosity towards the entire subject; which is strange because I'm interested in learning about almost anything.

I don't for a second doubt it's a very real issue, and seeing the pushback that people who have had a shit time of it, people who aren't harming anyone is reminiscent of the struggle for gay rights. But just mentally shut up when the grey areas (safe spaces for women) show up.

That said, there's no need for male and female public toilets. If you can shit next to Billy you can shit next to Sandra. And if the only thing stopping you raping someone is the fact it says gents/ladies on the door then it's not an effective system of protecting against sexual assault.

[Shuto Makino]

I'm not that interested in the debate, but would say I mainly support trans rights, if nothing else because they're not (or very rarely) doing anyone any harm, and given how high the suicide rate is among trans people I think it's best to just show a bit of respect and compassion. There are areas in which a proper debate would probably be helpful, like access to women's shelters for instance, where I've seen people on both sides make reasonable points, but such a debate seems almost impossible when you have one side implying the other side are all sex pests and that side responding by calling them all transphobes. I also don't think trans women should be allowed to compete in female sports, although that's probably one of the less important issues in terms of society more broadly. Trans rights probably lends itself less well than any other issue to being discussed through social media.

[Del-icious]

It's probably frustrating as a trans person when you're fighting hard to be seen as the person you want to be and half of the people who are giving you shit are only interested in talking about sports and toilets.

People get so bogged down in the trivial matters and completely lose sight of the bigger picture, too happy to see the extremes of the argument and let that define every single person regardless of their position.

It's quite an important thing for us to work towards an equal society I think but it's a shame it plays out the way it does because just leaves people who are not that invested in it not really interested in learning about it. I'll happily admit I know little about it and don't really want to because of how toxic the debate gets. I am content that I wouldn't treat a trans person any differently and would make an effort to call them how they'd like but just cba entering into the debate on it beyond threads like this where we're all roughly on the same page anyway.

[Mr A]

The online debate about it is toxic tbh.

As with most things it is the minority that are causing a lot of the issues. The men pretending to be trans, growing their hair long and then taking pictures of themselves with their wee boabies out in women's changing rooms. Of course that will cause fear and alarm for a lot of women & girls.

Or I guess some of them aren't pretending and actually are trans, but are pushing the limits of what is acceptable to make a point.

The extremes on both sides are arseholes.

[Walter Sobchak]

When you read a twitter post and it manages to squeeze neurotypical, heteronormative, cisgender, cishet and TERF into 160 characters, t's time to switch the app off again.