Talk Hearts Daily News Thread

[Walter Sobchak]

The online debate about it is toxic tbh.

As with most things it is the minority that are causing a lot of the issues. The men pretending to be trans, growing their hair long and then taking pictures of themselves with their wee boabies out in women's changing rooms. Of course that will cause fear and alarm for a lot of women & girls.

Or I guess some of them aren't pretending and actually are trans, but are pushing the limits of what is acceptable to make a point.

The extremes on both sides are arseholes.

There is the sports angle as well. Extreme figures/outliers, that cause more harm to the cause/discourse. That Rachel McKinnon is absolutely toxic online and so aggressive with it. Given her size she has surely benefited from her time as a male, before transitioning.

[CritchSmile]

The thing is, if you are a lassie and transitioned to man or vice-versa, words like "nuance" and "considering both sides of the argument" is basically invalidating who they are. So I even find the argument that people should be more nuanced in their opinion difficult to reconcile with. I end up just taking no position on it because I'm not comfortable defending my belief as I'm not sure what i believe.

Again, saying something like "i'm not sure yet whether I can fully accept your existence" is incredibly transphobic to certain people. And do you know what, I understand that.

So difficult.

I don't want to position myself as some moderate, rational thinker while "they" are triggered extremists - it's always easy to be moderate/nuanced when you don't have any stake in the game.

[Papin]

The absolute minefield of causing offence on either side through using the incorrect terminology is quite something

[pondlife]

See Ellen Page has just transitioned to become Elliot Page, that must be the highest profile female to male transition so far?

What's folks opinions on the whole “I identify as a they/them debate?”

Googled 'Ellen Page' as obviosly I haven't the foggiest who this person is. Came up 'Ellen Page' (Wiki, on the left) and 'Elliot Page' (Wiki, on the right).

[Nive la France]

As well as the reasons already stated, I find it difficult to engage with because I'm not sure what each side wants as an end goal. I don't actually think anyone is denying anyone's "right to exist", but I also don't know what either side wants to make them happy, or whether reconciliation is even possible.

In a way it's forcing me to form my beliefs from my own prejudices, which is never a good place to start. I instinctively reject terms like "cisgender", this whole "them/they" pronouns debate, and sex not being biological. These seem to be beliefs which would automatically label me a TERF in the eyes of many, and the anger I'd be subject to would only further serve to entrench me if I chose to engage in the conversation.

It's hard to see a way out, especially if you haven't ever had questions over your gender.

[Johnny]

I instinctively reject terms like "cisgender", this whole "them/they" pronouns debate, and sex not being biological

Ben Shapiro, its yersel!

[CritchSmile]

Neave Rubin.

[Roger H. Sterling]

As well as the reasons already stated, I find it difficult to engage with because I'm not sure what each side wants as an end goal. I don't actually think anyone is denying anyone's "right to exist", but I also don't know what either side wants to make them happy, or whether reconciliation is even possible.

In a way it's forcing me to form my beliefs from my own prejudices, which is never a good place to start. I instinctively reject terms like "cisgender", this whole "them/they" pronouns debate, and sex not being biological. These seem to be beliefs which would automatically label me a TERF in the eyes of many, and the anger I'd be subject to would only further serve to entrench me if I chose to engage in the conversation.

It's hard to see a way out, especially if you haven't ever had questions over your gender.

I'm here as well. I don't bother to engage with it really because it's not something I particularly care much about. Happy for folk to love who they want how they want. Happy enough for people to transition from man to woman or vice versa. Don't particularly agree with the spectrum of genders or the non binary argument. Just attention seeking to me and does a lot of damage to a society trying relatively hard to include those with gender dysphoria. I reckon there's a lot of people with even traditional values that could get their head around a man wanting to be a woman. As soon as you tell them you have no gender, want to be called they and Mx, then you'll lose them.

[Kashinda]

Agree with Rog on the they/them stuff. I'm happy to do my best to respect their choice. Ellen Page becoming Ethan Page for example, fine by me. 

Not sure why I should have somebodies belief system imposed on me that I disagree with, and then be forced to go along with it because it makes them feel better. 

If you don't believe in a god and then all of a sudden you're told that you have to acknowledge said god then you wouldn't be happy. Probably an over simplistic way of looking at it but there you go.

[Floyd]

Agree with Rog on the they/them stuff. I'm happy to do my best to respect their choice. Ellen Page becoming Elliott Page for example, fine by me. 

Not sure why I should have somebodies belief system imposed on me that I disagree with, and then be forced to go along with it because it makes them feel better. 

If you don't believe in a god and then all of a sudden you're told that you have to acknowledge said god then you wouldn't be happy. Probably an over simplistic way of looking at it but there you go.

FTFY.

[Charlie Kelly]

Not going to debate anything about this because the sides of the debate are generally so extreme it's not even worth trying to find some sort of common ground to start with, but it takes no effort from me to call someone what they prefer to be called, just common courtesy IMO. 

To me, it's not the same as religion in the slightest because being asked to call someone they/her/him or whatever isn't the same as having religion forced upon you.

[Shteve]

Very few people will find themselves in a position where they are asked to call someone something that isn't what stands before them tbh, I'm quite happy for that world to exist without me being a part of it.

[Shuto Makino]

I'm quite happy for that world to exist without me being a part of it.

Something I'm sure we can all get behind.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/statu...56704?s=21

[PHOODLE-OUt]

https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/statu...20704?s=21

[Del-icious]

https://twitter.com/edinburghpaper/statu...20704?s=21

First reply someone greeting about bike lanes

I'm going to change my insurance to pay as you drive this coming year. Car done less than 2000 miles last year.

[pondlife]

See the short car journeys, say less than 2 miles for example. These just aren't going to stop anytime soon, and if they make it so onerous folks will just stop doing things altogether. This notion that folks are going to bike up to places like JKC to play football for an hour on a wet Tuesday evening in December are fanciful/far-fetched ( a couple of bams maybe but majority, no chance they aren't that motivated under the circumstances). Not unless the council is willing to invest in recreation facilities in every local neighbourhood. I can guarantee you that almost every single parent who is invested in their children's well-being will be out there most of the week taxi-ing them to various sports venues/clubs etc, certainly in the winter months.

There are some cunts, cycling freaks to call it mildly. that simply want to impose their lifestyles on others, it's fucked. If I couldn't get away from Edinburgh into rural areas away from the maddening crowd I'd quite possibly end it all. These zealots are very dangerous people imo.

[Kashinda]

https://twitter.com/jxkebains/status/134...94240?s=21

Brutal

[Del-icious]

There are some cunts, cycling freaks to call it mildly. that simply want to impose their lifestyles on others, it's fucked.  If I couldn't get away from Edinburgh into rural areas away from the maddening crowd I'd quite possibly end it all. These zealots are very dangerous people imo.

Just seeing this, that is no way to talk about Walt

[pondlife]

Just seeing this, that is no way to talk about Walt

Ken. I know you're basically a guid cunt cyclist that goes out in fair weather with a trackie top and non-matching shorts. does it a couple times more then pans the whole thing for another five months. One of us. Have a pozzie.