Talk Hearts Daily News Thread

[Fire Doinks]

Just typed out a long, in-depth reply and my phone deleted it.

My point with the numbers was more that these people can't be seen as representing French Islam.  We could triple our figure to 18,000 and 99.7% of French Muslims (5,982,000 people) would be excluded.  I don't like arguments along the lines of 'these people aren't Muslims', but in that context I don't think Islam should be identified as 'to blame'.  As I said at the time, it was an aside: I wasn't accusing you of doing so.

My research was/is on contemporary literary and filmic representations (useless amirite) of France's racial-religious divides.  To understand that you need to research the history and sociology of (particularly) North African immigration to France as well as the specificities of French Islam.  I've actually been accepted for a PhD starting next year comparing literary and filmic contributions to debates with media discourses.  None of that makes my opinion more worthwhile than yours or anyone else's; I only mentioned it because it does hopefully mean that even if I can't recall the exact source there should be something behind figures I throw out (i.e. six million Muslims in France).

Really sorry to hear that mate, have a sympathy pozzy because I've been there and I know how hard it can be.

I actually agree on that 'these people aren't muslims' point, because it has in the past been used by radical (but non-violent) muslims/islamists to hide how they really feel on some issues like apostasy, FGM, stoning etc. but it's very hard to argue against particular aspects within a faith and a particular group within it when you constantly have to reassert the point that you're not talking about all muslims or all of islam. I make the mistake frequently of assuming that that point is already understood and find myself defending against accusations that I simply don't see my argument as being representative of.

That sounds interesting and I do know a little bit about north african migration, and I think quite a lot of it coincided with the fall of the French empire in north africa and these people followed back to the mainland in the hopes of keeping or building prosperity. Maybe it is at least in part a frustration of unfulfilled dreams and a social trap that has filtered down the genrations? Again, basing that on nothing but my assumptions.

I'm happy to speak in general terms and not depend on facts and figures that could be uncitable or at the very least rely on the faith of the person I'm in discussion with, so for the most part I'm happy for assumptions to be made on both sides as long as we both accept that that's what they are and acknowledge the broader point that was being made with them rather than trying to attack the specific example, which I don't think you've done to be fair.