Suicide

[shaun.lawson]

No not wrong. It's your opinion but your talking pish.

The difference is shitting yourself whilst in the palliative stages of a terminal illness isn't a choice. Everything you list is a choice. Addictions may well be illnesses but they can be cured.

If someone chooses to keep shooting up, drinking, gambling etc. to the extend they lose their job, home, family, whatever and decide to kill themselves as sad as that is it is all defined on choice.

It doesn't. Not, mind you, that is surprises me for one moment that you're on the wrong, ignorant, judgemental beyond belief side of the argument though.

Why are you such a cunt, Prancer? You must really really hate yourself to spout the bile you always do.

[Prancer]

Pipe down Shaun. You have such a complex about yourself and your opinions which you genuinely believe are fact.

It's no wonder you have to live in a bizarre little fantasy world away from normal people who would quickly ridicule your ridiculous stories and views.

[Bill Cosby]

Right then, a story. About my sister, and about me.

My sister became suicidal in 2003, while at university. There followed three attempts at her own life (all overdoses of medication) over an 18-month period. In the first case especially, she was extremely fortunate her flatmate heard her moaning at around 8am one morning. Had it been another hour, the doctors said she wouldn't have made it.

This resulted in my sister coming home, back to my parents' - whereupon she got worse. A lot worse. For reasons maybe only I - because I'd shared the same upbringing - understood. As far as I was concerned, her depression was mostly environmental - but how could she go back to uni when she was so ill?

In March 2005, she went into a private psychiatric clinic. A brilliant one. She got so so much better in only a month. But she had the disastrous idea of coming back one Sunday, for Easter dinner with my folks. I was out that evening, came back at about midnight, and found her in my brother's room. I said hello, was alarmed beyond belief by the state she was in, and demanded she go back to the clinic at once.

Yet as we sat waiting for the taxi to arrive, something really weird happened to me. I think I connected so closely with her that suddenly, it was like I could see right into her head; exactly what she was thinking. And that was so dark, so terrifying, that I became shaky too: shakier than maybe I'd ever felt in my life. To the point whereby, after the taxi had dropped her off, I sat with her in the clinic for my own safety as much as hers, then sat in her room back at home until dawn, too scared to go to sleep.

What happened to me is essentially why psychologists and psychiatrists keep such a clear emotional detachment from their patients. It's all too easy to be sucked in otherwise. I was relieved beyond imagination to head back to Oxford a couple of days later - and back in the clinic, she recovered, and eventually decided to live by herself. Which would've seemed nuts only a couple of months earlier, but was absolutely the right decision.

Perhaps due to your experience, you can't seem to differentiate long term mental illness such as that suffered by your sister and the almost impulsive nature of the vast majority of suicides.

A question, you have two people who are standing with the noose around their neck. One person decides to go through with it and the other one thinks of their family and gets down and seeks help.

Hypothetically, do you believe in that scenario it's possible that both people were in an equally bad way mentally?

[Del-icious]

Again, that's your opinion. 

There are many experts that think addiction is a choice. You can't choose to stop having cancer, you can choose to stop drinking, gambling or taking drugs.

Morph, if I said to you that you coukd either live the rest of your years in solitary confinement or take a pill and die a painless death. What would you choose?

I really don't understand what you're getting at with that question

I've never ever had thoughts of taking my own life and the thought of death terrifies me so I don't think it's as easy as just saying “I'll take the pill”. I never really knew that it's common for people to commit suicide to avoid a jail sentence though, will need to look into that one.

[Bill Cosby]

I really don't understand what you're getting at with that question

I've never ever had thoughts of taking my own life and the thought of death terrifies me so I don't think it's as easy as just saying “I'll take the pill”.  I never really knew that it's common for people to commit suicide to avoid a jail sentence though, will need to look into that one.

Choose one.

[Floyd]

Pill please.

[KartumaFish]

I really don't understand what you're getting at with that question

I've never ever had thoughts of taking my own life and the thought of death terrifies me so I don't think it's as easy as just saying “I'll take the pill”.  I never really knew that it's common for people to commit suicide to avoid a jail sentence though, will need to look into that one.

I think it's symptomatic of the cartoonish impression of suicide painted by people who consider it selfish. I don't doubt it happens, but it just strikes me as outlandish and hollywood.

[Roger H. Sterling]

I've thankfully never been suicidal but I just can't fathom how you can say there's no choice of how to go. There's so many methods that there has to be some decision making there. Maybe that's an issue with me more than anything, but I can't help but feel that unless it genuinely is a spur of the moment thing that had no planning, you can avoid ruining the lives of others whilst ending your suffering.

I believe everyone has the right to choose to live or not but I get pretty angry thinking about how you could traumatise someone else to achieve that.

[Bill Cosby]

Pill please.

One rational suicide pill coming up Floyd.

[Shteve]

I really don't understand what you're getting at with that question

I've never ever had thoughts of taking my own life and the thought of death terrifies me so I don't think it's as easy as just saying “I'll take the pill”.  I never really knew that it's common for people to commit suicide to avoid a jail sentence though, will need to look into that one.

Pretty sure I watched a video of a crafty guy in court gubbing some pills and killing himself when the guilty verdict came in.

[Del-icious]

I think the point is if you're genuinely suicidal you don't get a few days to sit and work out the pros and cons of each decision.

As Scott says, depression comes in waves and can be very intense. If you are caught in a severe bout of depression you feel like your only option is to top yourself. You're thinking about nothing else other than this is the only way out for you to 'fix' yourself.

[shaun.lawson]

Perhaps due to your experience, you can't seem to differentiate long term mental illness such as that suffered by your sister and the almost impulsive nature of the vast majority of suicides.

A question, you have two people who are standing with the noose around their neck. One person decides to go through with it and the other one thinks of their family and gets down and seeks help.

Hypothetically, do you believe in that scenario it's possible that both people were in an equally bad way mentally?

No. Because no two people and no two forms of depression are exactly alike.

You're right about my personal experience of depression, mental illness and suicide attempts though. My other sister, also with long term mental illness, also attempted suicide 3 times last decade (meaning that at Oxford, if friends asked me "Shaun, how's your sister?", I'd channel my inner Joey Tribbiani and plaintively reply, "which sister?").

Then there's me. I've been suicidal twice in my life: in late 2007 and late 2008. On the first of those occasions, I was very, very close. What stopped me? Knowing what it'd do to my loved ones. Yet (1) many who commit suicide don't have loved ones, or don't/no longer realise they have loved ones, or have no-one to turn to at all; (2) All that meant was my mind hadn't completely gone. If it had, I doubt I'd be sat here typing this.

Incidentally: of course suicide can be impulsive and frequently is. But even in those cases, there's usually some sort of trigger; something which sends the victim over the edge.