(09-17-2017, 11:00 AM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: So whats with the propoganda? Hundreds of millions of muslims aren't trying to kill you. Fact.

We are at war. Do you disagree ?

(09-17-2017, 11:17 AM)Walter Snowchak Wrote: This is my big worry. Hundreds of millions who are actively trying to kill us. We are literally at war all the time. Hundreds of millions in active engagement against us. All the time.

We are at war. What would you describe it as ?

Has it been mentioned that the 18 year old "bomber" is white?

Can I ask again, what are you doing to counter Islam CC?

(09-17-2017, 11:31 AM)2Nafferty Wrote: Can I ask again, what are you doing to counter Islam CC?

Boycotting corner shops and take aways is my guess.

What a depressing existence it must be to live in the anger and fear of an imaginary perpetual war.

(09-17-2017, 11:29 AM)Dexter Wrote: Has it been mentioned that the 18 year old "bomber" is white?

Not been named yet. And what has skin colour got to do with it ? Islam isn't a race. 

(09-17-2017, 11:31 AM)2Nafferty Wrote: Can I ask again, what are you doing to counter Islam CC?

I'm not fearful of bringing up the subject. Most are. 

(09-17-2017, 11:42 AM)Dexter Wrote: Boycotting corner shops and take aways is my guess.

Nope. I frequent my local corner shops and take aways far too regularly.

(09-17-2017, 11:47 AM)Aceymandias Wrote: What a depressing existence it must be to live in the anger and fear of an imaginary perpetual war.

Imaginery ? Are bombs imaginery ? 

Do you live in some sort of strange parallel universe ?

I don't live in fear or anger. I live life to the full. I do however realise the creeping influence Islam is having on this country and the dangers this entails. 

The nation is in collective denial imo.

So, facing hundreds of millions of suicidal and murderous Islamic terrorists in a battle for civilization you're fighting back by 'bringing it up'.

My hero.

(09-17-2017, 12:36 PM)2Nafferty Wrote: So, facing hundreds of millions of suicidal and murderous Islamic terrorists in a battle for civilization you're fighting back by 'bringing it up'.

My hero.

Someone asked what I'm doing and I replied ? That ok with you ? I'm not pleading heroism. That's what you and others have brought up to try to belittle the very pertinent point I am making rather than addressing it.

This is standard when it comes to this subject. Anything but actually discussing the problem in hand. 

Talking about it is a start.

(09-17-2017, 10:46 AM)Coppercrutch Wrote: It needs to be discussed. I'm happy to do that.

You've not 'discussed' anything, you racist, bigoted, pea-brained prick. Nuance, complexity and shades of grey don't exist in your world. Smearing all 1.6 billion adherents of a faith is just so, so much easier. And never mind your ignorance and bigotry - you do something far, far worse than that. You do the terrorists' work for them.

Since their emergence, al-Qaida and ISIS have posed the most colossal threat to Western civilisation. Not half as much through what they do, as what they try to make people think. People like you. They try to make Westerners think that an entire religion is at war with them - and why? Because they want perpetual war, perpetual conflict... and above all, they want Muslims throughout the world to think the West and Christianity are against them.

The response of Western leaders to this has been mixed. Bush and Trump? Idiotic, playing right into their hands. Obama? Very good, refusing to give them the all-out war they crave, but quietly pushing back against their "caliphate", which is now in a state of collapse. The response of Western publics, on the other hand, has been mostly very impressive. Especially those living in multicultural, multi-ethnic cities. They've always had an understanding of what al-Qaeda/ISIS want: namely, for us to turn against each other. So they don't; they rise above it instead.

This leads some on the right or far right to insist, as you do, that we are "all in denial". Why, wailed Trump, wouldn't Obama even call it "radical Islamic terrorism"? Answer: because as someone with a brain, Obama knows this isn't what Islam represents in any way. It's a handful of complete monsters twisting and perverting Islam for their own murderous ends. Is that the fault of all other Muslims? Of course not - yet all other Muslims are on the look-out for the rotten apples in their midst regardless, and reported the Manchester bomber to the authorities four times before he attacked. Each time, they were incomprehensibly ignored.

"Islam" is not "at war with us". Nor is "Christianity" "at war with Islam" or anyone else when we bomb another Middle Eastern country to smithereens, or when some lunatic runs amok in the US and shoots dead scores of children in a school. Nor is "Judaism" "at war with Islam" when Israel behaves appallingly yet again. This is your rather sick desire to turn this into something it has never been; a desire shared only by curtain-twitching cretins terrified to leave their homes each day, and the terrorists themselves.

You're terrified, CC. Terrified of some 'threat' which mostly exists only in your imagination. And that makes you quite pathetic. So weak, it's unbelievable. This piece of psychoanalysis comes to you free of charge. I trust you find it useful.

Understanding some of the fundamental causes would be a start; disenfranchised youth in this country who have little hope of carving out a fulfilling life due to a multitude of social issues and western foreign policy over the past 30 years would be two of the most blatant causes.

(09-17-2017, 11:21 AM)Coppercrutch Wrote: We are at war. Do you disagree ?

I'm not in the armed forces. Last time I checked there's no conscription. Are you at war?

(09-17-2017, 12:54 PM)Coppercrutch Wrote: Someone asked what I'm doing and I replied ? That ok with you ? I'm not pleading heroism. That's what you and others have brought up to try to belittle the very pertinent point I am making rather than addressing it.

This is standard when it comes to this subject. Anything but actually discussing the problem in hand. 

Talking about it is a start.

I just thought you'd be more pro-active considering it's literally the end of civilization. If i thought the world was falling apart, as you do, i'd do something.

You're literally just paying it lip service. Have the courage of your convictions.

(09-17-2017, 12:56 PM)shaun.lawson Wrote: You've not 'discussed' anything, you racist, bigoted, pea-brained prick. Nuance, complexity and shades of grey don't exist in your world. Smearing all 1.6 billion adherents of a faith is just so, so much easier. And never mind your ignorance and bigotry - you do something far, far worse than that. You do the terrorists' work for them.

Since their emergence, al-Qaida and ISIS have posed the most colossal threat to Western civilisation. Not half as much through what they do, as what they try to make people think. People like you. They try to make Westerners think that an entire religion is at war with them - and why? Because they want perpetual war, perpetual conflict... and above all, they want Muslims throughout the world to think the West and Christianity are against them.

The response of Western leaders to this has been mixed. Bush and Trump? Idiotic, playing right into their hands. Obama? Very good, refusing to give them the all-out war they crave, but quietly pushing back against their "caliphate", which is now in a state of collapse. The response of Western publics, on the other hand, has been mostly very impressive. Especially those living in multicultural, multi-ethnic cities. They've always had an understanding of what al-Qaeda/ISIS want: namely, for us to turn against each other. So they don't; they rise above it instead.

This leads some on the right or far right to insist, as you do, that we are "all in denial". Why, wailed Trump, wouldn't Obama even call it "radical Islamic terrorism"? Answer: because as someone with a brain, Obama knows this isn't what Islam represents in any way. It's a handful of complete monsters twisting and perverting Islam for their own murderous ends. Is that the fault of all other Muslims? Of course not - yet all other Muslims are on the look-out for the rotten apples in their midst regardless, and reported the Manchester bomber to the authorities four times before he attacked. Each time, they were incomprehensibly ignored.

"Islam" is not "at war with us". Nor is "Christianity" "at war with Islam" or anyone else when we bomb another Middle Eastern country to smithereens, or when some lunatic runs amok in the US and shoots dead scores of children in a school. Nor is "Judaism" "at war with Islam" when Israel behaves appallingly yet again. This is your rather sick desire to turn this into something it has never been; a desire shared only by curtain-twitching cretins terrified to leave their homes each day, and the terrorists themselves.

You're terrified, CC. Terrified of some 'threat' which mostly exists only in your imagination. And that makes you quite pathetic. So weak, it's unbelievable. This piece of psychoanalysis comes to you free of charge. I trust you find it useful.  

I didn't bother reading past there. You've already lost the debate. Please try harder.

(09-17-2017, 12:57 PM)Bill Cosby Wrote: Understanding some of the fundamental causes would be a start; disenfranchised youth in this country who have little hope of carving out a fulfilling life due to a multitude of social issues and western foreign policy over the past 30 years would be two of the most blatant causes.

These are good points. It's the religion that gives them the "backing" for their actions though. In the name of God. Allah blesses me. Etc..

Without that would people be willing to blow themselves up in order to be a martyr and go to their heavenly delights ? Unlikely.

Our foreign policies have been a disaster though. Totally agree. Just adding fuel to the fire.

(09-17-2017, 01:36 PM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: I'm not in the armed forces. Last time I checked there's no conscription. Are you at war?

We are at war. France have been in a state of emergency for years now. 

It's not a "classic" war as in trenches and front lines. But it's still a war. 

(09-17-2017, 01:40 PM)2Nafferty Wrote: I just thought you'd be more pro-active considering it's literally the end of civilization. If i thought the world was falling apart, as you do, i'd do something.

You're literally just paying it lip service. Have the courage of your convictions.

What do you think I should do ?

(09-17-2017, 02:07 PM)Coppercrutch Wrote: Without that would people be willing to blow themselves up in order to be a martyr and go to their heavenly delights ?

Kamikaze?

(09-17-2017, 02:07 PM)Coppercrutch Wrote: Without that would people be willing to blow themselves up in order to be a martyr and go to their heavenly delights ? Unlikely.

Yes, for example the Japanese Kamikaze pilots.

(09-17-2017, 02:09 PM)Coppercrutch Wrote: What do you think I should do ?

Offer to help this war on terror by going to Afghanistan and clearing landmines with your face.

Play your part.

(09-17-2017, 02:10 PM)Craig Levein-Style Icon Wrote: Kamikaze?

(09-17-2017, 02:17 PM)Bill Cosby Wrote: Yes, for example the Japanese Kamikaze pilots.

That's an interesting point. I read a lot about this and it's intriguing. 

A massive difference between the treatment of POW's between ww1 and ww2 in Japan. 

The first they treated them with respect and hosted beer parties for them and everything. Some amazing pics can be found online about this. They viewed them as fellow warriors and so treated them as such.

Between then and ww2 the Emperor instilled a different way of thinking where he was treated more or less like a God. Any non Japanese were treated as animals and sub human. 

Have a read about the Nanking (I think) atrocities for details. Horrendous. 

So by ww2 the POW's were treated with contempt. 

Complete difference to even 25 years earlier.

It's actually a very good example of how the mindset of entire nations can be changed in a very short time.

A large number of middle East Islamic countries feel the same way about the "Western" world today. 

Note - The above is from my brain and has not been Google verified.

(09-17-2017, 02:26 PM)Half Time Guest Wrote: Offer to help this war on terror by going to Afghanistan and clearing landmines with your face.

Play your part.

So because I raise a point you don't like but can't really find anything tangible to disagree with I should go and blow up my face ?

Face up to the truth.