(08-13-2018, 08:57 PM)Bobby B Wrote: The answer to that is Yes.

If there was another indyref tomorrow I'd vote yes again, just like if there was a general election tomorrow I'd vote Labour again, but in both cases I quite strongly believed in it last time and now just think it'd be less awful than the alternative.

Re. the wreath, am I mixing this up with something else or was that not at a larger collective service?

This hands the right wing a weapon to use against Corbyn, which too many in the UK will be swung by.
In a period when that right wing is presiding over a time of social fragmentation and could be there for the taking by an effective opposition this will cause such frustration within his party that we'll be in the (surely) unique position of both of the big 2 parties being in such a state that each is as likely to split as the other. You'd expect the failing one to foster strength & unity in the other as progress would become so possible at the failing one's expense.


Paints a poor picture of each of them.

(08-13-2018, 08:43 PM)shaun.lawson Wrote: What about him?

He went to the commemoration. He didn't lay a wreath for the Black September terrorists. He did lay a wreath for others. He's associated with those others over the years because he's supported the Palestinians' struggle against illegal occupation.

It's not difficult, all this. It's being made difficult because people can't distinguish between someone who supports the Palestinians and someone who's an antisemite. Israel and its supporters muddy the waters for precisely this reason: to delegitimise the Palestinians' cause altogether, with a medium and longer term view to annexe the occupied territories as a fait accompli.

When someone opposes South African apartheid while others support it; opposes the Iraq war ahead of that catastrophe; opposes Saudi war crimes while our government arms and enables it; and supports the Palestinians against ongoing oppression and constant illegal lethal force, for some reason, this makes him an enemy of the state. That says everything we need to know about the British state, and why the world is the way it is. As, for that matter, does how those journalists responded to Boris Johnson yesterday.

You want change? Real change? In class-ridden Britain, with its overseas tax-dodging written press, its publicly funded state broadcaster, its never-ending housing crisis, its normalisation of Islamophobia and hatred of immigrants, and ever-increasing inequality and poverty? Forget it. Vested interests come first. They always have.

Buckle up for another decade of the tories

Look. Lots of furious media headlines.  

I so wish the Labour Party had someone the right wing media loved. That'd sort things, obv.  

Have the families of Palestinians murdered by Israel or Yemenis murdered by Saudi Arabia (in both cases, with Britain's support; in the latter case, with Britain's specific help) demanded an apology? Will it be forthcoming?

(08-13-2018, 09:13 PM)Makween Wrote: Re. the wreath, am I mixing this up with something else or was that not at a larger collective service?

Yes it was. It's being made to look as though Corbyn went there cos he terrorists. And clowns like AP are swallowing it whole.

It's all the media's fault

I don't find this latest phase you are going through very convincing when you would literally do anything to have an article printed in the MSM. Can't wait for the flip flop on this one (again).

https://twitter.com/ggreenwald/status/10...3491084288

I think what Greenwald says here is closest to my thoughts on the situation. It is excessive (if he wants to lead Britain) and has led to him associating with undesirable people. He has been caught lying about this for whatever reason and his cult can't accept it, it is tragic.

Can you not have sympathy for Palestine and also think that IRA Jez is an unelectable welt?

An arrogant tosspot who genuinely believes he is always in the right (buoyed by an army of devoted drones who also think he can do no wrong and would defend anything he did).

Blame the media all you want - but he gives them ammunition by consistently making poor choices.

He's badly damaged the Labour Party & not sure how long it'll take to fix it tbh. Hopefully all those momentum types that paid their £3 to join the party and put him in power forget to pay their subs.

Corbyn, then, has been an answer to something; but here's where it immediately gets awfully messy. All those qualities of just being himself served him beautifully during the campaign, but less than a week into his leadership, are already fast turning into a total liability. This is a man who has never run anything in his life; would never have dreamt of even making it to the frontbench, let alone becoming Leader of the Opposition; whose entire approach to politics is that of protest; has kept some extraordinarily dubious company in his time; and who not only wasn't supposed to have won, but at many stages during his campaign, bore all the hallmarks of not even wanting the job. His role was supposed to involve merely opening up the debate; at the time he scraped onto the ballot thanks to the charity of a few MPs, nobody anywhere foresaw he could actually carry the day. Including – and this is critical – himself.

Thus his first few days in the position have involved one fiasco after another. A shouty, passive aggressive, garbled victory speech in which he attacked the press: the very entity which any viable political party desperately needs, if not to support it, at least to faithfully report its message. A Shadow Cabinet reshuffle in which a man whose triumph was hailed by the motley trio of Hamas, Sinn Fein and Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner promoted John McDonnell, the only man in the entire Parliamentary Labour Party almost as rebellious as Corbyn himself, who once declared “the peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA”, and that he wanted to go back in time and assassinate Margaret Thatcher, all the way to Shadow Chancellor; and in which Angela Eagle's late night promotion to Shadow First Secretary of State occurred not through any prior planning, but as a panicked response to outrage on Twitter at the lack of women in senior positions.

Corbyn's failure to sing the national anthem at a service marking the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain was scarcely a crime – but unheard of from someone who supposedly wants to become Prime Minister. And when asked late on Sunday night to comment on his reshuffle by a few journalists, he all but ran away like a startled hare.


This is typical of the right wing media in Britain. Clowns will swallow it whole.

Oh wait, it was the pound land George Galloway, Shaun Lawson. Laughable.

Shaun - what is it that you have written in AP's post that you think you were wrong about and why?

Still think Corbyn's leadership will be a long-term positive if Labour's move to the left lasts beyond him I'm pretty critical of him now in a lot of respects, but don't see a better/other option currently.

https://twitter.com/plopgazette/status/1...46208?s=21

(08-14-2018, 06:33 AM)Alan Partridge Wrote: Corbyn, then, has been an answer to something; but here's where it immediately gets awfully messy. All those qualities of just being himself served him beautifully during the campaign, but less than a week into his leadership, are already fast turning into a total liability. This is a man who has never run anything in his life; would never have dreamt of even making it to the frontbench, let alone becoming Leader of the Opposition; whose entire approach to politics is that of protest; has kept some extraordinarily dubious company in his time; and who not only wasn't supposed to have won, but at many stages during his campaign, bore all the hallmarks of not even wanting the job. His role was supposed to involve merely opening up the debate; at the time he scraped onto the ballot thanks to the charity of a few MPs, nobody anywhere foresaw he could actually carry the day. Including – and this is critical – himself.

Thus his first few days in the position have involved one fiasco after another. A shouty, passive aggressive, garbled victory speech in which he attacked the press: the very entity which any viable political party desperately needs, if not to support it, at least to faithfully report its message. A Shadow Cabinet reshuffle in which a man whose triumph was hailed by the motley trio of Hamas, Sinn Fein and Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner promoted John McDonnell, the only man in the entire Parliamentary Labour Party almost as rebellious as Corbyn himself, who once declared “the peace we have now is due to the action of the IRA”, and that he wanted to go back in time and assassinate Margaret Thatcher, all the way to Shadow Chancellor; and in which Angela Eagle's late night promotion to Shadow First Secretary of State occurred not through any prior planning, but as a panicked response to outrage on Twitter at the lack of women in senior positions.

Corbyn's failure to sing the national anthem at a service marking the 75th anniversary of the Battle of Britain was scarcely a crime – but unheard of from someone who supposedly wants to become Prime Minister. And when asked late on Sunday night to comment on his reshuffle by a few journalists, he all but ran away like a startled hare.


This is typical of the right wing media in Britain. Clowns will swallow it whole.

Oh wait, it was the pound land George Galloway, Shaun Lawson.   Laughable.

I'm going to indulge in blatant whatabouttery and say that Blair and Thatcher were awful humans so it shouldnt be a barrier to office for others.

(08-14-2018, 09:00 AM)Gregory Wrote: I'm going to indulge in blatant whatabouttery and say that Blair and Thatcher were awful humans so it shouldnt be a barrier to office for others.

But they could actually lead a party and hold the government to account when in opposition.

(08-13-2018, 11:06 PM)Alan Partridge Wrote:

That Metro front page

(08-14-2018, 09:17 AM)Papin Wrote: But they could actually lead a party and hold the government to account when in opposition.

They were also despicably evil and caused immeasurable damage to our country that can never be undone.

But at least they lead well!!

(08-14-2018, 10:21 AM)Gregory Wrote: They were also despicably evil and caused immeasurable damage to our country that can never be undone.

But at least they lead well!!  

Think you are missing the point Scott, probably deliberately.

The point is that Corbyn cannot lead his party and cannot hold the government to account - so he will never be PM in the first place, regardless of how despicable he is

(08-14-2018, 10:30 AM)TheSitzpinkler Wrote: Think you are missing the point Scott, probably deliberately.

The point is that Corbyn cannot lead his party and cannot hold the government to account - so he will never be PM in the first place, regardless of how despicable he is

Thanks Mags.