Talk Hearts Daily News Thread

[Zizou]

Live hand grenade?

[2MatoFish]

Live hand grenade?

Mari Reynolds @mreyn02
At Gatwick North Terminal. We were Yards away from Armed Police arresting man with "Gun in bag."Mass evacuation . Lockdown in progress still

[Dexter]

Full scale evacuation of Gatwick Airport reports Twitter.

Rumour: live hand grenade found in luggage

Fuck sake - I literally was half way through a post on whether something like Paris could happen here in the heightened security state.

I stand corrected.

I was uneasy in general before all this...now I'm genuinely concerned.

[Papin]

Twitter is at its best when events are unfolding and at its worst in the week after. Particularly the Yanks.

[shaun.lawson]

In fairness, no he's not really saying that. He's saying the only people likely to attack us, or a similar nation, attacked despite their being a nuclear nation. Therefore the only threat wasn't deterred by the deterrent. Therefore it's not fit for purpose.

The problem with what he saying is that it's cheap political point scoring. It's essentially gloating over the deaths of innocents, but his point is sound. Just horribly crass.

Sure, I get that. My argument would be I still think the deterrent's worthwhile for conventional threats, but it's precisely because of the sorts of threats we could face in the future - what happens if terrorists get hold of a WMD? - that I think we need nuclear capability for, in that hopefully never to be experienced scenario, pre-emptive use.

[Drederick Shanktum]

Oh for fucks sake.

[Drederick Shanktum]

That wings guy, what a fucking slaver.

[shaun.lawson]

Fuck sake - I literally was half way through a post on whether something like Paris could happen here in the heightened security state.

I stand corrected.

I was uneasy in general before all this...now I'm genuinely concerned.

Well, the reason the airport's been evacuated is unconfirmed as yet. But as well as the security services being on heightened alert, there'll also be various panics in the days ahead in all likelihood. Again, that's how terrorism works: it puts everyone so on edge all the time.

[Shuto Makino]

The scariest part of this is definitely the potential for polarisation. I genuinely don't think people realise just how serious racial tensions already were in France anyway. You'll be talking to a French person who'll seem completely normal, friendly and happy to meet a foreigner living in their country only for them to start firing out some pretty shocking racism when the subject gets onto 'les Arabes'. Crime rates in what are basically ghettos, race and Islamisation are discursively linked to the point where in the popular opinion people with brown skin (and therefore assumed to be Muslim) are seen in the same way as the 'dangerous classes' of the nineteenth century. This, as I said earlier, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in many cases.

Any event like this worsens that and plays into the hands of Le Pen and the FN. That in turn widens the divides in French society still further. Comparisons with the UK really aren't valid, as while there are racial tensions in the UK they're on nothing like the same scale.

[2MatoFish]

Sure, I get that. My argument would be I still think the deterrent's worthwhile for conventional threats, but it's precisely because of the sorts of threats we could face in the future - what happens if terrorists get hold of a WMD? - that I think we need nuclear capability for, in that hopefully never to be experienced scenario, pre-emptive use.

The line that the nuclear deterrent isn't worthwhile falls down if the scenario changes.

In response, and purely for the sport of it, i'd say that currently having nukes wouldn't deter terrorists from getting or trying to get a WMD, so they're still useless as a deterrent in that altered scenario. From there, the only option is to use them and i'd never want that done by a country i'm a citizen of; so it fails on both counts. And is still a sizeable cost.

But the scenario could change again to one where they exist as a useful deterrent. I just don't see them as justifiable based on the probabilities.

[shaun.lawson]

ISIS has formally claimed responsibility for yesterday's attacks.

On Gatwick: I suspect it's just that someone spotted a suspect package. As everyone's rightly on heightened alert, that's all it takes basically.

[shaun.lawson]

The line that the nuclear deterrent isn't worthwhile falls down if the scenario changes.

In response, and purely for the sport of it, i'd say that currently having nukes wouldn't deter terrorists from getting or trying to get a WMD, so they're still useless as a deterrent in that altered scenario. From there, the only option is to use them and i'd never want that done by a country i'm a citizen of; so it fails on both counts. And is still a sizeable cost.

But the scenario could change again to one where they exist as a useful deterrent. I just don't see them as justifiable based on the probabilities.

Purely for the sport of it, I agree: it'd never deter terrorists. But it'd be a last resort method of saving ourselves if we had serious intelligence that they had a WMD and were going to use it imminently.

And yes, the can of worms that opens, I know, I know...

[Roger H. Sterling]

Only followed this briefly last night as I was shattered. 60 dead when I went to sleep, 130 when I woke up this morning. Most news is from the scene footage and rhetoric. Facebook is absolutely choc with faux grief. Can someone who's been following closely give me a brief run down of the facts?

[Shuto Makino]

A sidenote which should be underlined: to my knowledge, the death toll is now at least 128. Take any sample of 128 people in that part of Paris, at any given time, and it's literally impossible for that not to include a large number of Muslims/individuals of North African origin.

[2MatoFish]

Lots of heads of governments meeting with lots of organisations with scary acronyms. Retribution and response will be predictable



They've got the terrorist playbook and they're running it, step by step.

[Drederick Shanktum]

There can be no doubt we will play in to their hands. Ground troops in Syria soon?

[Roger H. Sterling]

Getting myself properly wound up at facebook. Not a single sincere post on the subject at all. Every single one is just cunts wanting folk to see how much they care. Probably went as far as "Oh, a tragedy in paris, better let faceyb ken I'm compassionate", googled some shan "pray for paris" image and chucked it as their profile picture, sat back all smug about it. Now going about their day as if they're fucking Gandhi.

[Dexter]

French President declaring it as an "Act of War"

[Shuto Makino]

An American girl I know in Toulon marked herself safe. Toulon's about 500 miles away from Paris.

[Sterling Archer]

Getting myself properly wound up at facebook. Not a single sincere post on the subject at all. Every single one is just cunts wanting folk to see how much they care. Probably went as far as "Oh, a tragedy in paris, better let faceyb ken I'm compassionate", googled some shan "pray for paris" image and chucked it as their profile picture, sat back all smug about it. Now going about their day as if they're fucking Gandhi.

Pretty much said the same last night. Literally just seen a "today, we are all French."