Talk Hearts Daily News Thread

[Walter Sobchak]

- For me the most worrying thing here is the way in which it seems to validate the idea that we have two-tier citizenship: citizenship can effectively be revoked under certain circumstances, but only when you commit certain forms of crime associated in the popular imagination with certain communities. If a guy called Colin, whose parents were American or Australian, went to Vietnam and beasted loads of kids would we be discussing the removal of citizenship? Of course we wouldn't - regardless of how heinous those crimes were, we'd be judging them in the U.K. The signal being sent here is that citizenship is conditional - but only if you're a brown person committing brown people crimes. This gives legal backing to the idea that, no matter where you were born or what it says on your passport, you don't really belong in the U.K. if you come from a minority ethnic/Muslim cultural background - or at least that your belonging is conditional in good behaviour in a way that it isn't for the majority of the population.

- For me, the argument about her being a young girl isn't really relevant. If she was a 45 year-old man, we should still take her back into the country.

This is absolutely spot on.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Fuck her.

[The Great Khali]

Lewy with some excellent points on this

[Sarkozabal]

I like how Sarkozy thinks ISIS is an equal opportunities employer, lads and lassies side-by-side in the trenches. The male:female pay gap must be non-existent

It's also a wonder how she managed to have 3 kids in 4 years while being on the front-line.

What does the front line have to do with anything? Are you only a member of a terrorist group if you're spending every day physically shooting at people yourself?

I wonder what message the UK government is sending to young, disenfranchised British muslims.

Is it 'don't join ISIS'?

[Charlie Kelly]

Don't really have a hard opinion either side on her, think she's more than likely been set up to play the system and see how it goes by whoever's pulling her strings, stirs the pot up a bit either way, she gets let back in, no doubt some bammers batter her/kill her and the battle lines are drawn, she doesn't get back in and stripped of her citizenship, it can be spinned that we don't give a fuck about Muslims. Win win for ISIS if that's what's happening.

What I would say with the videos of her, she's sitting in a camp more than likely with other ISIS punters, she's hardly going to publicly denounce them and call them all cunts when it's highly likely her and her baby will be cut to pieces, if she is genuine about her remorse.

I am a bit concerned that we're happy to just strip citizenship from people that we don't want to deal with though.

[Del-icious]

Don't understand why it has to be either you have sympathy for her and think she's done nout wrong or you think she should rot.  They're not mutually exclusive.

Couldn't really care less about the lassie but it's about the precedent we set as a country revoking our own citizens rights to be British.  I don't think there's anyone saying she should come back and be allowed to live life as if nothing had happened but Britain has a duty to take responsibility for it's own citizens, not just palm them off if they can.

It would be interesting to see what would've happened if they didn't have the convenient solution of just deciding she wasn't British anymore.

[Chrambo]

Don't really have a hard opinion either side on her, think she's more than likely been set up to play the system and see how it goes by whoever's pulling her strings, stirs the pot up a bit either way, she gets let back in, no doubt some bammers batter her/kill her and the battle lines are drawn, she doesn't get back in and stripped of her citizenship, it can be spinned that we don't give a fuck about Muslims. Win win for ISIS if that's what's happening.

What I would say with the videos of her, she's sitting in a camp more than likely with other ISIS punters, she's hardly going to publicly denounce them and call them all cunts when it's highly likely her and her baby will be cut to pieces, if she is genuine about her remorse.

I am a bit concerned that we're happy to just strip citizenship from people that we don't want to deal with though.

Didn't she escape them?

[Charlie Kelly]

Didn't she escape them?

Thought she was in a refugee camp or something like that? Either way would be risky for her to go all in on calling them out and denouncing them completely.

[Del-icious]

Thought she was in a refugee camp or something like that? Either way would be risky for her to go all in on calling them out and denouncing them completely.

Yeah she is, and there will be others there who are only there because they had nowhere else to go after Raqqa was lost by ISIS.  It's not going to be a camp made up of people who condemn them fully or whatever.  There will be other bams like her who are fucked because ISIS are being wiped out, not because they want to escape them.


Maybe one for Walt - what's the process of revoking someones citizenship in the way we have?  I thought something like this would be a typical court case where evidence is provided against her and she has an opportunity to defend herself.  I could be wrong but it looks like an executive decision has been made by the home secretary, are you able to summarise the law around it?

[Walter Sobchak]

[Zizou]

Trump is putting pressure on the UK and Europe to take back ISIS members they are holding and these camps don't have the capacity to keep them forever so it will be interesting to see if we continue with this policy under American pressure.

[Big Physical Acey]

their holiday prison sentence

do some reading about the state of prisons these days, particularly English ones.

With Mak on this one. Fuck her, but she's our problem.

[Walter Sobchak]

Maybe one for Walt - what's the process of revoking someones citizenship in the way we have?  I thought something like this would be a typical court case where evidence is provided against her and she has an opportunity to defend herself.  I could be wrong but it looks like an executive decision has been made by the home secretary, are you able to summarise the law around it?

It is an executive decision. But she does have a right of appeal to the SIAC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Im...Commission

So the decision is made by the Home Office/the secretary of state or officials acting on his behalf. Then a right of appeal will be triggered by virtue of legislation, in this case as it relates to "matter of national security" would be heard in the SIAC as opposed to an open court/tribunal.

[Drederick Shanktum]

Mak nailed it.

[Del-icious]

It is an executive decision. But she does have a right of appeal to the SIAC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Im...Commission

So the decision is made by the Home Office/the secretary of state or officials acting on his behalf. Then a right of appeal will be triggered by virtue of legislation, in this  case as it relates to "matter of national security" would be heard in the SIAC as opposed to an open court/tribunal.

Javid told lawmakers on Monday that more than 100 dual nationals had been stripped of their U.K. citizenship for terrorism-related reasons.

Hundreds of Britons have already returned from IS-controlled areas. Some have been prosecuted, and others put through deradicalization programs.

Sounds like this has happened to people in a similar position to her. If that's the case can't imagine she'll have a successful appeal?

It's a bit ''guilty now, ask questions later'' way of doing things.

[Walter Sobchak]

Sadly we haven't see the rest of the letter, with reasons, but I would imagine the majority of reasons would be hidden anyway, and just blandly cited as "national security concerns or some such.

[Charlie Kelly]

Another way of looking at this is this is a nice smokescreen away from the government's Brexit failings/resignations etc :

[Walter Sobchak]

Sounds like this has happened to people in a similar position to her.  If that's the case can't imagine she'll have a successful appeal?

What happened in those appeals isn't likely to be precedent for her appeal. It will turn on the law and what the evidence is. It will be held in secret and she wont even get to know what the evidence against her is, it will only be revealed to her special advocate (with security clearance) and her lawyer wont even see it.

[Chrambo]

Trump is putting pressure on the UK and Europe to take back ISIS members they are holding and these camps don't have the capacity to keep them forever so it will be interesting to see if we continue with this policy under American pressure.

He was putting pressure on us since the start of this whole thing (weeks ago), and they made the decision to revoke yesterday. So doubt it's going to make much difference now.

[The Comedian]

Asia Bibi can't come to this country because it would upset the community that created this foolish girl.



She will undoubtedly be back in the UK on taxpayer dime. It's so utterly galling, if she wants to live under Muslim law etc she could join her father in Bangladesh where it might fit her beliefs better.