'Wings Over TalkHearts' Politics Thread

[Mr A]

Scotland is not dismissed or resented at Westminster – the SNP are. That is because the SNP have been quite public about the fact that they are in Westminster to cause trouble and that's what they have done since they got there. They can't really do anything else.

You're conflating the SNP with Scotland which is exactly what the SNP want you to do. They want you to feel that when they are attacked Scotland is being attacked – that is not the case. 37% of people voted for the SNP at the last general election - they are not Scotland's party.

I don't feel anyone really stands up for me either tbf, Morph. Especially at Holyrood level. But what I can say is that if you vote SNP in Westminster elections you are never going to get anything other than what you get now.

If you think independence is the answer then feel free to crack on – but from the SNP's own figures in the growth commission we'll be looking at another decade of austerity at least.

CBF really getting into the same old shite discussions on here about it tbh. Everyone made up their minds on this years ago. Scotland will not move on until independence is either won or off the table.

[Big Physical Acey]

They can't really do anything else.

Why's that? Bearing in mind you've just seen a video of Labour/Tory MPs automatically shouting down something just because it was raised by an SNP MP.

You're conflating the SNP with Scotland which is exactly what the SNP want you to do. They want you to feel that when they are attacked Scotland is being attacked – that is not the case. 37% of people voted for the SNP at the last general election - they are not Scotland's party.

This is such a shite argument. If you don't vote, you don't count. Same reasoning applies for Remain supporters whinging about Leave's mandate in the same terms. The SNP represent the vast majority of Scottish constituencies, which is all that matters under FPTP.

[CritchSmile]

CBF really getting into the same old shite discussions on here about it tbh.

Thats because Morph made excellent points that you can't deny.

[Jeff Resnick]

Scotland is not dismissed or resented at Westminster – the SNP are.

Absolute rubbish and you know fine well its rubbish. You're using that for another 'SNPbad' tirade.

[Picards Forehead]

If you think independence is the answer then feel free to crack on – but from the SNP's own figures in the growth commission we'll be looking at another decade of austerity at least.

Our economy is about to be ruined for a generation regardless thanks to little englanders

[Walter Sobchak]

Our economy is about to be ruined for a generation regardless thanks to little englanders  

[Mr A]

Why's that? Bearing in mind you've just seen a video of Labour/Tory MPs automatically shouting down something just because it was raised by an SNP MP.


This is such a shite argument. If you don't vote, you don't count. Same reasoning applies for Remain supporters whinging about Leave's mandate in the same terms. The SNP represent the vast majority of Scottish constituencies, which is all that matters under FPTP.

Because they will never form a government. They will always be a protest party.

Your second point is shite - 37% of Scotland voted SNP. That is a fact. That is enough to return them in the vast majority of constituencies but it certainly does not support the claim that they are 'Scotland's party''.

Thats because Morph made excellent points that you can't deny.

Never said he didn't make good points. As you can see though - any post I make will be met with numerous responses and I cant be bovved having the same argument with the same people about the same shite we've argued about hundreds of times.

Absolute rubbish and you know fine well its rubbish. You're using that for another 'SNPbad' tirade.

Nope. Absolutely true I am afraid.

[Billy Butcher]

Our economy is about to be ruined for a generation regardless thanks to little englanders  

Bingo

Still, better together, eh. So happy to be an unequal in a Union. Absolutely great. I have to live the next few decades considerably worse off in many ways because some little Englanders who have never met an Immigrant in their life and thinks Britain is a global superpower that the EU will bow down to got tricked by the side of a bus and scare mongering by people who stand to make a considerable amount of money from us leaving the EU. Such a great Union.

In the past couple of days we have seen almost every amendment which suggests the devolved administrations should get a say get rejected by the same result. There is always 37 people voting for this, and the SNP has 35 MPs. Now, you can believe Twitter that #SNPbad and the SNP are only there to cause trouble, or you can see amendments which quite clearly ask the question - 'If we are an equal partner, do our devolved administrations get a say in any of this?' The answer is an emphatic no (before the question is even asked - it's rejected just because of who asked it!!!).

The statement that Scotland (or any other part of the UK outside of London/England) is not dismissed is a complete and utter lie. A demonstrable lie.

[Jeff Resnick]

Because they will never form a government. They will always be a protest party.

Your second point is shite - 37% of Scotland voted SNP. That is a fact. That is enough to return them in the vast majority of constituencies but it certainly does not support the claim that they are 'Scotland's party''.

But when that argument is used against The Tories being the main party its 'tough. Thats the system'. You cant have it both ways. Its either a valid argument all the time or none of the time.

As you can see though - any post I make will be met with numerous responses and I cant be bovved having the same argument with the same people about the same shite we've argued about hundreds of times.

Stop playing the victim. Its doesnt suit you. But part of the reason you 'cant be bovved' is because you have next to no counter beyond empty rhetoric and 'SNPbad'. For someone of your clear intellect, its absolutely bewildering.

Nope. Absolutely true I am afraid.

It is, I'm afraid. Source? Those that work in Parliament, both here and Westminster, on all sides of the political divide, not to mention other sources from people in high enough places to know these things. Whether you want to face up to that truth, because it doesnt fit into your 'SNP are the root of all evil and are bad all the time' narrative, is another thing altogether.

[Walter Sobchak]

The statement that Scotland (or any other part of the UK outside of London/England) is not dismissed is a complete and utter lie. A demonstrable lie.

You know, the reason england didnt want devolution is it would offend their sense that Westminster is really the English parliament. An English parliament, outside of Westminster, and then Westminster for reserved affairs, would never get off the ground, because the English themselves know that Westminster is an english parliament.

[Jeff Resnick]

Now, you can believe Twitter that #SNPbad and the SNP are only there to cause trouble, or you can see amendments which quite clearly ask the question - 'If we are an equal partner, do our devolved administrations get a say in any of this?' The answer is an emphatic no (before the question is even asked - it's rejected just because of who asked it!!!).

The statement that Scotland (or any other part of the UK outside of London/England) is not dismissed is a complete and utter lie. A demonstrable lie.

You know, the reason england didnt want devolution  is it would offend their sense that Westminster is really the English parliament. An English parliament, outside of Westminster, and then Westminster for reserved affairs, would never get off the ground, because the English themselves know that Westminster is an english parliament.

This is where a lot of the current resentment lies. That regardless of what any other part of the UK says/wants/needs/deserves that that will be summarily dismissed.

[Billy Butcher]

SNP, just causing problems again

[Mr A]

But when that argument is used against The Tories being the main party its 'tough. Thats the system'. You cant have it both ways. Its either a valid argument all the time or none of the time.

Stop playing the victim. Its doesnt suit you. But part of the reason you 'cant be bovved' is because you have next to no counter beyond empty rhetoric and 'SNPbad'. For someone of your clear intellect, its absolutely bewildering.

It is, I'm afraid. Source? Those that work in Parliament, both here and Westminster, on all sides of the political divide, not to mention other sources from people in high enough places to know these things. Whether you want to face up to that truth, because it doesnt fit into your 'SNP are the root of all evil and are bad all the time' narrative, is another thing altogether.

Moving the goal posts here, Jeff. Would anyone ever say that because the Tories won a majority & formed a government that they were 'Britain's Party'? The SNP have framed the narrative so that those that vote for them think they are doing so 'for Scotland'. There's a reason that over 50% of SNP voters think that when the SNP is insulted that it is a personal insult to them - if you identify as Scottish and think the SNP 'are Scotland' and then you get upset because you think it is Scotland (ie you) being insulted, rather than the SNP.

I am not playing the victum. Just saying why I can't be bovved. Responding to lots of responses is time consuming.

[Jeff Resnick]

Moving the goal posts here, Jeff. Would anyone ever say that because the Tories won a majority & formed a government that they were 'Britain's Party'? The SNP have framed the narrative so that those that vote for them think they are doing so 'for Scotland'. There's a reason that over 50% of SNP voters think that when the SNP is insulted that it is a personal insult to them - if you identify as Scottish and think the SNP 'are Scotland' and then you get upset because you think it is Scotland (ie you) being insulted, rather than the SNP.

I am not playing the victum. Just saying why I can't be bovved. Responding to lots of responses is time consuming.

I'm not moving any goalposts at all. Does anyone say that? Absolutely. Plenty Tory voters have indeed said they're 'Britain's Party' and on the back of similar percentages of votes. I've heard it used plenty times when I visit family down south and speak to people there, many of whom are in Tory heartlands. You just cant now use that as a stick to beat the SNP with because it suddenly suits your 'SNPbad' narrative.

Part of the problem here is you often struggle to convey any opinion beyond that narrative and often conflate two issues - that if someone says they're against how Westminster operates that they must be some kind of SNP supporter/raging nationalist. Its absolutely possible to be neither and still be pissed off at how Westminster operates. Indeed, and as I've mentioned before, there's some academic research to suggest this. But because you appear unwilling to take this on board, despite it being discussed numerous times, you end posting to a robotic default position and narrative.

As for the last sentence, you are and its something you often do. Do folk pile in? Aye (you do to on other threads when it suits). Part of that, in my view (and as someone who usually observes more), that because of the reasons I've given. Someone gives a very credible, reasoned response and you usually reply with 'I cant be bovved'. Its all very disappointing.

[Zizou]

https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/...5002672128

Labour leavers keeping the tories in power.

[2MatoFish]

So it's hard brexit then.

[Zizou]

Kate Hoey voted with the tories and kept May in power.

Her constituency is 78% remain

Total fucking cow.

[Jeff Resnick]

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1...11109?s=19

[Jeff Resnick]

Kate Hoey voted with the tories and kept May in power.

Her constituency is 78% remain

Total fucking cow.

She's also from Northern Ireland and says the GFA is 'unsustainable' and it shouldnt stand in the way of Brexit.

[Zizou]

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1019291556157804547