General football musings

[shaun.lawson]

OK Shaun, let's discuss your completely hypothetical situations.

Would I be happy with my 16 or 17 year old daughter having an affair with a teacher? No. Because I agree with you that there is a grey area about what age it's acceptable for an adult to have sexual relations with a young person. I don't think anyone would debate that with you. That's why it wouldn't be OK for the guy you mentioned to be rattling your pal the day she turned 16. Maybe in the eyes of the law it would be OK, but it was still be seriously creepy and wrong in most people's eyes. I think that very point was made by many on here when you first made this ridiculous argument.

Mainly though, I'd have an issue with my 16 year old daughter sleeping with her teacher because he'd almost certainly have gotten to know her as a child before she turned 16. Just like I assume this guy knew your pal for a while, as a child, before they got together. Which makes it even more creepy, weird and unacceptable.

That grey area of what is acceptable diminishes the further a person gets from childhood. Which is why I'd have less of an issue with my 18-21 year old daughter sleeping with her university lecturer. But also because, importantly, the lecturer wouldn't have known her and therefore first developed a relationship with her when she was a child. Definitely much less creepy and weird.

I'd still not be best pleased about her shagging a guy in his mid to late 30s, but if she was comfortable with it being fully consensual then I don't think you there's much I could grumble about.

I'd be appalled, to use your turn of phrase, if she told me she was doing it because she thought it would get her better grades. And I'd be fuming if she was doing it because he told her he'd give her better grades. But those are totally different to simply getting with someone because you want to.

As far as I'm aware, Sampson hasn't been accused of coercing anyone, or even pushing the limits of what might be considered consensual. On the back of everything that's come out about Weinstein you'd have thought if there was even a hint of anything similar going on involving Sampson then the player(s?) he was involved in would be queuing up to get that out there. That's not happened, and until it does I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that it probably was just two consensual, grown adults doing something they were both comfortable with.

If you want to be appalled by that because they were a coach and a player then you carry on blowing your trumpet and waving your banners. But if that is how you feel, I don't see how you can be anything less than at least equally appalled at the thought of a man in his late 30s developing a relationship and an attraction over a period of time for a 15 year old girl which resulted in them sleeping together while she was still 15.


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Good, thought-provoking post, thanks for this. However... in the UK right now will be 16 year old boys sleeping with 15 year old girls. Or 17 year old girls sleeping with 15 year old boys. Many people on this forum will have lost their virginity before age 16 - and viewed it as a badge of honour that they did. Yet in the eyes of the law, someone is not an adult until age 18.

In other words, massive numbers of those defined by the law as children have had sex, and are having sex. A considerable number of them will have and are losing their virginity to those defined by the law as adults. And anyone slightly above the age of consent who has a boyfriend or girlfriend who is slightly below it, waits until their partner reach the age of consent, then have sex, conforms to your definition above. Specifically: that they'd have known their partner when they were a child too.

Then we come to the particularly thorny issue of the double standards involved. People simply do not view an older woman (say, above 21) who has sex with a 15 year old boy in the same grim light. Consistency says they should - but they don't. Very often, the 15 year old boy becomes a hero among his friends. The whole thing is faintly absurd - but I'm pleased to see you acknowledge just how many grey areas there plainly are.

[shaun.lawson]

And yet you don't appear willing to consider even for a second that there may have been nothing underhand going on with Sampson, on the basis that Weinstein is a dirty, raging sex pest

By definition, it was underhand, for the reasons rojo provided. Impact not just on the player(s) concerned, but on the whole squad.

[Del-icious]

How is a male sports coach shagging a female player any different from a standard manager in a workplace shagging an employee?

It's more about how the individuals act in that situation than a blanket coach shag player = bad.

[shaun.lawson]

How is a male sports coach shagging a female player any different from a standard manager in a workplace shagging an employee?

It's more about how the individuals act in that situation than a blanket coach shag player = bad.

See rojo's post.

[Herman Boyce]

Good, thought-provoking post, thanks for this. However... in the UK right now will be 16 year old boys sleeping with 15 year old girls. Or 17 year old girls sleeping with 15 year old boys. Many people on this forum will have lost their virginity before age 16 - and viewed it as a badge of honour that they did. Yet in the eyes of the law, someone is not an adult until age 18.

In other words, massive numbers of those defined by the law as children have had sex, and are having sex. A considerable number of them will have and are losing their virginity to those defined by the law as adults. And anyone slightly above the age of consent who has a boyfriend or girlfriend who is slightly below it, waits until their partner reach the age of consent, then have sex, conforms to your definition above. Specifically: that they'd have known their partner when they were a child too.

Then we come to the particularly thorny issue of the double standards involved. People simply do not view an older woman (say, above 21) who has sex with a 15 year old boy in the same grim light. Consistency says they should - but they don't. Very often, the 15 year old boy becomes a hero among his friends. The whole thing is faintly absurd - but I'm pleased to see you acknowledge just how many grey areas there plainly are.

Re. Your first point, in the eyes of the law it would be wrong. Just like, in the eyes of the law, it would be OK for this 30 odd year old guy to have been shagging your pal if she was 16 years and 0 days old.

I think everyone would agree though, that a 16 year old shagging a 15 year old is less of an issue morally or ethically than the latter scenario. I genuinely think you are too intelligent not to be able to see that, so I'm not really sure why you're making that point.

A 16 year old or a 17 year old shagging a 15 year old may be against the law, but there's a very good argument to be made that they teenagers of those ages aren't very different at all.

As for your last point, the 15 year old boy becomes a hero amongst his friends because they're children Shaun, who probably don't see how it's weird. I think most on here would be in agreement that a girl over 21 shagging a 15 year old laddie is wrong.

That point, that the 15 year old boys don't see it for what it is, is the reason I have an issue with your friend and this guy. If you've such an issue with consent and coercion I don't see how you can't see how a 15 year old girl might be vulnerable to an older guy looking to pump her.


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[Del-icious]

See rojo's post.

You could apply that to any working environment in the world.

[shaun.lawson]

You could apply that to any working environment in the world.

Well - a manager sleeping with an employee is always a thorny issue. But there aren't many working environments in which you have 22 employees, say, but only some of them get to play each week. Of course there's competition among many staff in many different fields - but behaving in an ethical way shouldn't be beyond any manager. That so many do behave unethically is a sad sad commentary on them.

But in any case: unfair behaviour by managers - favouring certain individuals, bullying or isolating others - has bad consequences for morale and hence, results. It's not just that it's wrong. It's incredibly stupid too.

[Rory Breaker]

I hope our Media team are watching this ans taking notes


http://www.whatahowler.com/motherwell-de...an-united/

[Timothy Dugshite]

Aberdeen's keeper absolutely fucked with a knee injury.

Shame, like.

[dokratrow]

Rodgers tipping Lennon for the Scotland job

[Groot]

Aberdeen's keeper absolutely fucked with a knee injury.

Shame, like.

Oh that's a shame, he makes a big difference for them 

[Chrambo]

The SRUs bid video for Scotland matches.

https://www.facebook.com/scottishrugby/v...813765827/

Bit of a waste of time since Rangers and Celtic have already put in a joint bid which is a shame.

[Vieri]

Bit of a waste of time since Rangers and Celtic have already put in a joint bid which is a shame.

Not really. Would much prefer Celtic Park and Ibrox over Murrayfield.

[Timothy Dugshite]

Not really. Would much prefer Celtic Park and Ibrox over Murrayfield.

Absolutely this. Fuck Murrayfield.

[Zizou]

Have to say I'm not mad on Murrayfield either. It is fucking shite for football. Cup finals would lose something if they were on our doorstep as well imo.

Celtic and Rangers for the finals and Tynecastle and Easter Road for smaller games makes sense to me.

[2MatoFish]

We're all agreed that Hampden is awful though, right?

[Timothy Dugshite]

Unfortunately there's not a chance an agreement won't be made to stay at Hampden.

[Chrambo]

https://twitter.com/stjohnstone1884/stat...7382945793

[The Comedian]

Murrayfield trumps ( ) Hampden in all areas apart from the view for some and atmosphere IMO. It ticks every other box for me so I'm in, much easier for going to matches for a start.

Also fuck Rangers and Celtic, one are Tim cunts who hate Scotland and the other are SFA boycotting slags still greeting at their own demise. Both happy to make some coin from this though.



Fuck the Weegie grip on Scottish Football anaw

[Winston Churchill]

I don't do Jock games. That said. I'd rather watch hertz in a cup final at Murrayfield.

Hampden is a fucking dump