'Wings Over TalkHearts' Politics Thread

[Mr A]

Refusing a referendum when a party got elected with it as a leading policy in their manifesto is a one way take to independence IMO.

Eh?

[Mr A]

Why is the number important? If they start putting more money in to education improvement s will be made, that's obvious.

Here is at least a fairer overview of what has been leaked https://www.theguardian.com/politics/201...e-railways

I don't think that throwing money at something automatically leads to improvement.

The numbers matter because of perception. They need to convince the public that they could be a competent government. They are not doing that at the moment.

[Bill Cosby]

Eh?

One way road*

Fucking phone.

[Mr A]

One way road*

Fucking phone.

Ah ok. It's not being refused - just saying can't be done before Brexit which tbf is what the polls suggest the majority of Scots are happy with.

[2MatoFish]

I don't think that throwing money at something automatically leads to improvement.

Don't open with that in your pay review

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Scottish Parliament vote tonight on NHS pay cap. Interesting to see the outcome.

Voted down.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

FT's projections : No chance the Nats will lose 23 seats : Salmond losing his seat though



https://t.co/Ff429PHixj

[Billy Butcher]

Think you're confusing SNP interests with Scotland's interests but hey ho.

Just as a point - this is where i find a bit of an issue.

Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, aren't primarily concerned with Scotland's best interests. Scotland is a tiny part of a larger picture. The Tories in the current system have no reason to position themselves as looking after Scotland's best interests, because they'll get voted in whether or not Scotland votes for them, for example. It's why they are boiling the battle up here down to a second independence referendum and trying to hoover up all those disenchanted with Labour.

The Tories have literally no reason to care about the Scottish people. Sure, it would be nice for power's sake to have a few seats in Scotland to bump that majority up, but they aren't getting voted in or out of parliament based on it. For the SNP, that's the only seats that matter, and representing Scottish people is in their party DNA, so to speak.

SNP interests are closer to Scotland's interests, Tory interests are closer to Britain's interests. Obviously if you are Unionist then that isn't an issue, however, if you see Scotland as more than a small cog in a wheel at Britain's beck and call then you'll be more likely to vote SNP.

[Mr A]

Just as a point - this is where i find a bit of an issue.

Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, aren't primarily concerned with Scotland's best interests. Scotland is a tiny part of a larger picture. The Tories in the current system have no reason to position themselves as looking after Scotland's best interests, because they'll get voted in whether or not Scotland votes for them, for example. It's why they are boiling the battle up here down to a second independence referendum and trying to hoover up all those disenchanted with Labour.

The Tories have literally no reason to care about the Scottish people. Sure, it would be nice for power's sake to have a few seats in Scotland to bump that majority up, but they aren't getting voted in or out of parliament based on it. For the SNP, that's the only seats that matter, and representing Scottish people is in their party DNA, so to speak.

SNP interests are closer to Scotland's interests, Tory interests are closer to Britain's interests. Obviously if you are Unionist then that isn't an issue, however, if you see Scotland as more than a small cog in a wheel at Britain's beck and call then you'll be more likely to vote SNP.

MPs represent their constituents.

SNP MPs represent the party and only the party. An SNP MP would not ever break with the party line in order to speak up for their constituents. An MP from any other party would (or, at least, is allowed to. SNP MPs are not allowed to).

Scotland is not a block – you cannot say it has one unified interest (on the vast majority of matters).

What your argument amounts to is that no MP from any other party will do what is best for their constituents and you should therefore vote SNP – because they stand up for 'Scotland's interests'.

[Roger H. Sterling]

It's my go to if ever there's a "Forest Whitaker Films" round on Pointless.

The Air I Breathe for me. Works great for a 6 degrees of Kevin bacon as well.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Corbyn has run over a BBC cameraman on his way to the manifesto signing

https://order-order.com/2017/05/11/corby...cameraman/

ITN say Corbyn was in the car at the time of the collision, then got out and went into Labour HQ. Hit and run?

[Billy Butcher]

MPs represent their constituents.

SNP MPs represent the party and only  the party. An SNP MP would not ever break with the party line in order to speak up for their constituents. An MP from any other party would (or, at least, is allowed to. SNP MPs are not allowed to).

Scotland is not a block – you cannot say it has one unified interest (on the vast majority of matters).

What your argument amounts to is that no MP from any other party will do what is best for their constituents and you should therefore vote SNP – because they stand up for 'Scotland's interests'.

I suppose I see it in a fundamentally different way to you.

I don't trust an MP from other parties to represent Scotland or their constituents. I think a free vote or not isn't really relevant, because the party whips aren't weak enough to provide a free vote anyway, MPs will vote along party lines regarding big issues. A Tory MP with the deciding vote on a close Brexit deal is going to sink Brexit because one of their constituents went to a surgery and made a good point?

The SNPs only concern is Scotland and Scottish people. Sure, they have their agenda, but the party as a whole doesn't care about issues in England. Why would they? Can we say the same about a Scottish Tory/Labour/Lib Dem MP - do they truly have their constituents or Scotland as their priority, and are they interested in Westminster power battles and weighing in on issues which have no effect on their constituents such as Immigration in Stoke, etc.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

[Ray Winstone]

This the chap that Corbyn's car ran over?

Milking it

[Christian Benorchgrevink]

Was just thinking the same. If he'd been bumped into by some random there's no way he'd be getting wheeled off into an ambulance. Serves the cunts right, getting run over is one of the perils of the job when you're constantly jumping in front of cars to get a better pic

[Mr A]

I suppose I see it in a fundamentally different way  to you.

I don't trust an MP from other parties to represent Scotland or their constituents. I think a free vote or not isn't really relevant, because the party whips aren't weak enough to provide a free vote anyway, MPs will vote along party lines regarding big issues. A Tory MP with the deciding vote on a close Brexit deal is going to sink Brexit because one of their constituents went to a surgery and made a good point?

The SNPs only concern is Scotland and Scottish people.  Sure, they have their agenda, but the party as a whole doesn't care about issues in England. Why would they? Can we say the same about a Scottish Tory/Labour/Lib Dem MP - do they truly have their constituents or Scotland as their priority, and are they interested in Westminster power battles and weighing in on issues which have no effect on their constituents such as Immigration in Stoke, etc.

The bit in bold is fairly astonishing but given you're a nationalist it is to be expected.

The SNP's only concern is independence - that is their agenda. They do not care what happens on the road to achieve that. As can be seen in the shambles they have left in their way in Scotland over the last ten years. Independence first, last and always.

They care about English issues when it suits them, of course
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015...opposition

[Mr A]

Where there's blame there's a claim

[Billy Butcher]

The bit in bold is fairly astonishing but given you're a nationalist it is to be expected.

You're of course correct that I'm Nationalist. I want what's best for Scotland. That's why I voted No in the Independence Referendum

Obviously the SNP would have a moral issue if they stayed silent when the government wanted to bring back blood sports and legal animal cruelty. Even though they should stay out of English and Welsh issues, it's nice to see they know the correct times to break that rule. Of course, politics isn't a game of hard and fast rules, all adults know that.

[PHOODLE-OUt]

Obviously the SNP would have a moral issue if they stayed silent when the government wanted to bring back blood sports and legal animal cruelty.

After getting hounded () over the hypocrisy the last time fox hunting made the news, I imagine you won't hear much from them this time round.

[PHOODLE-OUt]