love that meme

(02-20-2017, 11:27 AM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: Apologies, Dam Son was the plebian to which I was referring. Happy for you to assume it was you too mind

Yeah it was a shit way to articulate what he meant, but it's equally as shit to truncate a quote to make it fit what you want it to mean. Once you add "They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible." it's pretty clear he isn't talking about a specific incident. It would be hard to determine what he meant at all without context tbh but jumping to conclusions doesn't help.

Bold bit I agree with. Still reading into this. I didn't think at first it was that bad for him to reach a common ground with his people by referencing something he saw on the news that many others would have saw on the news. Reading more about it though and he definitely see's Fox as a factual account of the world at large and is genuinely using the information he gets from it and creating policies based on it. That's far more important than whether or not he referenced a terrorist attack when he didn't. In this case, the "truth" (he watched Fox news and formed his opinion on Sweden) is far worse than the preferred "fake news" (that he misheard about a Swedish terror attack).

Nah, sorry not having that. I watched the speech live. He said something happened in Sweden last night whilst talking about terror attacks all across Europe, he mentions Nice, Germany etc.. How anyone can interpret what he said any differently is beyond me.

(02-21-2017, 07:22 AM)Missed98 Wrote: Nah, sorry not having that.  I watched the speech live.  He said something happened in Sweden last night whilst talking about terror attacks all across Europe, he mentions Nice, Germany etc.. How anyone can interpret what he said any differently is beyond me.

Can you quote the relevant parts?

(02-21-2017, 08:41 AM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: Can you quote the relevant parts?

Dont know if this will help but it appears he did mention Nice et al in the same speech:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...-last-nig/

And here's the fact check about crime stats in Sweden:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...nd-sweden/

Its clear what he meant to say was something like 'look at the likes of Sweden, Germany, France who have all increased migrant numbers. They're now having to deal with an increase in terror attacks and as a result, we need to keep vigilant and make sure it doesnt happen here'. But because he's such a fucking idiot, he didnt.

To be fair, I read an article in a respectable newspaper complete with quotes from the former PM of Sweden criticising Trump for making up terror attacks. Trump's got previous for slavering and as others have said it arguably reads like he's spreading fake news. Could also believe that he's been watching Fox News and given his casual way of addressing the public it's led to a misunderstanding.

Bottom line is this though:

(02-21-2017, 11:26 AM)Jeff Resnick Wrote: Dont know if this will help but it appears he did mention Nice et al in the same speech:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...-last-nig/

And here's the fact check about crime stats in Sweden:

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/...nd-sweden/

Its clear what he meant to say was something like 'look at the likes of Sweden, Germany, France who have all increased migrant numbers. They're now having to deal with an increase in terror attacks and as a result, we need to keep vigilant and make sure it doesnt happen here'. But because he's such a fucking idiot, he didnt.

This is where I'm at. He meant to say something, said it clumsily, folk decided for him what he meant and that's the narrative that spread across the media.

(02-21-2017, 12:03 PM)Dam Son Wrote: To be fair, I read an article in a respectable newspaper complete with quotes from the former PM of Sweden criticising Trump for making up terror attacks. Trump's got previous for slavering and as others have said it arguably reads like he's spreading fake news. Could also believe that he's been watching Fox News and given his casual way of addressing the public it's led to a misunderstanding.

Bottom line is this though:

Yeah because the Swedish PM probably wasn't watching the rally, he just heard through the media that Trump had claimed there was a terror attack in Sweden on Friday night, which he didn't say.

The rest is correct. He shouldn't be taking what Fox says at face value, and certainly shouldn't be using it as rhetoric in his political rallies. That's what the focus should be, not twisting his words to make it seem like he made up a terrorist attack then attacking him for that.

(02-21-2017, 12:42 PM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: This is where I'm at. He meant to say something, said it clumsily, folk decided for him what he meant and that's the narrative that spread across the media.


That's what the focus should be, not twisting his words to make it seem like he made up a terrorist attack then attacking him for that.

Using the quote in the first factcheck link, I think its fairly understandable why folk thought that though. Unfortunately, he can unlearn being a bumbling buffoon, and it'll continue to plague him throughout his presidency.

Have Sweden actually had an increase in terrorist attacks since taking on more migrants though?

It's all good saying "this is what he meant to say" but the guy is the president of the USA ffs. He should be making well thought out statements, not just what seems like going out in front of the media and winging it.

You get called out on here for less

(02-21-2017, 12:48 PM)Jeff Resnick Wrote: Using the quote in the first factcheck link, I think its fairly understandable why folk thought that though. Unfortunately, he can unlearn being a bumbling buffoon, and it'll continue to plague him throughout his presidency.

I dono Jeff, that first link still ends with this tidbit:

Decrying countries who accept immigrants and refugees, Trump told supporters to "look at what's happening last night in Sweden."

We couldn't find any reports that support Trump's narrative. It's possible Trump was referring to another event, but there hasn't been a fatal terrorist attack in Sweden since 2010. Even though Sweden has taken in a large number of immigrants, nothing was amiss Feb. 17.

We rate Trump's claim False.

Not taking anything seriously that's putting the words "fatal terrorist attack" in his mouth when it was never said. They're literally debunking a claim he never made. No idea how no one else is bothered by that. Yes, you can infer that meaning if you interpret it that way, just as you can infer another meaning by interpreting it another way. Quite annoying that plenty are happy with one interpretation that plays loosely with what he actually said, but not another. Don't see how it's any more likely that he meant terrorist attack last night over television report last night. He didn't say either.

(02-21-2017, 12:52 PM)Morph Wrote: Have Sweden actually had an increase in terrorist attacks since taking on more migrants though?

It's all good saying "this is what he meant to say" but the guy is the president of the USA ffs.  He should be making well thought out statements, not just what seems like going out in front of the media and winging it.

You get called out on here for less

Based on Jeff's second link, no. Statistics say no increase in crime. Anecdotes say there's some difficulties with new immigrants assimilating. Agree with the rest though, it's not what you'd expect of a president. I imagine Obama had a briefing about what exactly he was going to address in each of his speeches. Trump just seems to be a loose canon that says what he wants when he wants. Must be a headache for the PR team.

(02-21-2017, 12:52 PM)Morph Wrote: Have Sweden actually had an increase in terrorist attacks since taking on more migrants though?

It's all good saying "this is what he meant to say" but the guy is the president of the USA ffs.  He should be making well thought out statements, not just what seems like going out in front of the media and winging it.

You get called out on here for less

They had one, 7yrs ago. Crime has gone down overall.

(02-21-2017, 12:52 PM)Morph Wrote: Have Sweden actually had an increase in terrorist attacks since taking on more migrants though?

It's all good saying "this is what he meant to say" but the guy is the president of the USA ffs.  He should be making well thought out statements, not just what seems like going out in front of the media and winging it.

You get called out on here for less

Nope. It's a lie.

(02-21-2017, 01:11 PM)Roger H. Sterling Wrote: I dono Jeff, that first link still ends with this tidbit:

Decrying countries who accept immigrants and refugees, Trump told supporters to "look at what's happening last night in Sweden."

We couldn't find any reports that support Trump's narrative. It's possible Trump was referring to another event, but there hasn't been a fatal terrorist attack in Sweden since 2010. Even though Sweden has taken in a large number of immigrants, nothing was amiss Feb. 17.

We rate Trump's claim False.

Not taking anything seriously that's putting the words "fatal terrorist attack" in his mouth when it was never said. They're literally debunking a claim he never made. No idea how no one else is bothered by that. Yes, you can infer that meaning if you interpret it that way, just as you can infer another meaning by interpreting it another way. Quite annoying that plenty are happy with one interpretation that plays loosely with what he actually said, but not another. Don't see how it's any more likely that he meant terrorist attack last night over television report last night. He didn't say either.

While it may do, the main quote has him using the examples of Nice and Paris. Of course its all down to interpretation and I've already given what I actually think he meant to say, but I honestly don't think its a massive stretch to find people thinking he was hinting at a terror attack when he uses Nice, Paris and Germany and also says 'look at Sweden last night'. If he had left out the 'last night' part, this wouldnt be a discussion on what he meant but more a fact check about the crime stats.

As I've mentioned, his issue is he cant orate well enough to actually get out what he's meant to be thinking. It'll continue to land him in trouble and his 'battle' with the media will only grow because he cant convey his ideas and thinking properly.

So regardless of whether he was talking about a specific terrorism incident in Sweden, or just an increase in crime he's still talking out his arse?

(02-21-2017, 01:55 PM)Morph Wrote: So regardless of whether he was talking about a specific terrorism incident in Sweden, or just an increase in crime he's still talking out his arse?

Pretty much.

(02-21-2017, 01:55 PM)Morph Wrote: So regardless of whether he was talking about a specific terrorism incident in Sweden, or just an increase in crime he's still talking out his arse?

Yep. Although it seems it would be Fox talking out of their arse, he just likes to watch that a lot.

Either way, it's strange that people are bashing him with the "he made up a terrorist attack" narrative when he didn't make up a terrorist attack, that in itself is what's made up. The truth is just as bad.

It's not strange.

This argument < a terrorist attack.

(02-21-2017, 02:33 PM)Tzeal With It Wrote: This argument < a terrorist attack.

Agreed. A terrorist attack is much worse.

It's an important argument though. We have a scenario in which Trump has said something. He's given his explanation of what he meant, and then the media have decided for themselves another interpretation of what he meant. I just think it's pretty crazy that folk who are going on about fake news are happy to lap up fake news that suits their agenda. No matter what way you cut it, if you're still sitting there convinced that Trump made up a terrorist attack in Sweden on Friday night then you're a fucking idiot.

Are people still saying he was talking about a terrorist attack?